PeakOil is You
THE US / Mexico Border Thread (merged)
Re: Tired of the open border? Help the government build a wa
by Daculling » Wed 19 Apr 2006, 08:11:15
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Gil-Galad', 'T')His problem is caused by peak population - too many people in the world being produced in areas that cannot support them so they move into other people's areas.
True, but if the US has to deal with the problems caused by the inaction of other governments can the US place reproduction controls on the people of other nations? I realize that we kill people worldwide but it's not intended to be population control.
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Re: Tired of the open border? Help the government build a wa
by smallpoxgirl » Wed 19 Apr 2006, 13:02:51
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Willy', 'n')ow do you actually advocate paying this or are you trying to make a point?
I don't think there's any concievable way it could be paid. I think that's sort of the point. When you've made messes that you will never be able to set right, a little contrition and showing some effort to do right by people in the present goes a long way. Instead the US is just as engaged today in tromping around the globe wreaking mayhem and murder as it ever was.
I also think that you need to own up to the fact that the only rational for trying to exclude "illegal" immigrants is asthetic. The only reason that the schools and the medical system and whatever else are at all impacted by immigrants is that American's don't want to have to look at the realities of poverty. If the real concern was protecting the social infrastructure, it would be very easy to set a policy of excluding immigrants from schools, hospitals, whatever. The truth is that you don't want to look at some guy bleeding to death on the sidewalk outside the ER. Far better for him to be comfortably out of sight below the Rio Grande bleeding to death.
"We were standing on the edges
Of a thousand burning bridges
Sifting through the ashes every day
What we thought would never end
Now is nothing more than a memory
The way things were before
I lost my way" - OCMS
Of a thousand burning bridges
Sifting through the ashes every day
What we thought would never end
Now is nothing more than a memory
The way things were before
I lost my way" - OCMS
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Re: Tired of the open border? Help the government build a wa
by Willy » Wed 19 Apr 2006, 15:03:15
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', 'I') don't think there's any concievable way it could be paid. I think that's sort of the point. When you've made messes that you will never be able to set right, a little contrition and showing some effort to do right by people in the present goes a long way. Instead the US is just as engaged today in tromping around the globe wreaking mayhem and murder as it ever was.
if it can't be put right why should we beat ourselves up over it? we are giving consessions to mexico, look up the amount of aid we give every year.and if your worried about the US still "wreaking mayham and murder" that's an entirely different disscussion than the one we are having. how does adding to our population help that problem? more people means more wars for the cheap stuff and cheap energy america wants.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', 'I') also think that you need to own up to the fact that the only rational for trying to exclude "illegal" immigrants is asthetic.
asthetic? you are basicly implying that i and anyone else against illegal immigration is racist. first off i resent that you, who has never met me, presumes to pass judgement upon me anonymously across the internet. now that out of the way there are people who want to close borders for racist reasons, and those who want to open borders for racist reasons. i don't share either of those views, i personally want immigration controled for economic, security and cultural reasons. the economic and security points have already been brought up numerous times, the fact that you can not look objectivly at the information and paint it as racist is your own fault. now because of your previous statement i am going to preemptivly defend "cultural". race!= culture. a latino kid who grew up in chicago is more similar to a white kid that grew up in chicago than a mexican kid from a small village miles outside of mexico city. the two kids from chicago most likely hold similar views on most subjects and can understand each others viewpoints on issues they differ on. the kid form mexico however, while he may have much in common, will have some views that are purely mexican. the same can be said for everyone, russians, irish, iranians, isrealies,japanese, eygptians etc. now when introduced in small numbers in to a population people adapt to the mainstream while still keeping some cultural differences, this produces some diversity and fresh ideas while still keeping tensions low, add too many people of one culture and they will assmilate slowly this causes the tensions that are quite evident today. if this keeps up i assume we will see violence on a pretty large scale as well as other social problems. the nation and everyone of every race in it benefits from stablity and order. that's what i mean by culture. this does not mean i don't like other cultures in fact i am a fan of most of them. i just think it's stupid to mix them together in large amounts and not expect social turmoil. if we turn out to wrong about peak oil i think that some time (longtime) in the future all of earth will be one race and one culture, i'd just rather get there slowly and safely than through violence and social tension.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', 'T')he only reason that the schools and the medical system and whatever else are at all impacted by immigrants is that American's don't want to have to look at the realities of poverty. If the real concern was protecting the social infrastructure, it would be very easy to set a policy of excluding immigrants from schools, hospitals, whatever. The truth is that you don't want to look at some guy bleeding to death on the sidewalk outside the ER. Far better for him to be comfortably out of sight below the Rio Grande bleeding to death.
there could be ways to fix poverty and fix the social systems to deal with it, but who's going to pay for it and why are we letting the problem get worse? a flood of poor desperate people means it's that much harder to deal with the problem, resources are realtivly fixed and dividing them by an few extra hundred thousand people a years mean less for everyone else. i'd rather noone bleeds to death because the guy never had to leave his home in the first place. but that's mexico's problem not ours and i say we get ours solved before dealing with theirs.
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I'm sure you're right. Los Angeles and San Francisco were just named that way to try and sound ethnic.
