[Doly]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('seldom_seen', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', 'I') can't prescribe a society transplant.

[Heineken]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', 'Y')ou must be very young and naive to make such comments. And that's fine. But when you've come to the end of your own ride---when you're feeble and riddled by disease and crapping in your pants and maybe totally alone---you may have a more indulgent stance on this issue

[guest]

Why make it so hard? Blood Pressure Cuff around the neck. You'll pass out in about 10 seconds and suffer brain death in about 4 minutes.

Quick and easy with nearly no mess to clean up for the heartbroken relatives....minus the body fluids that you will release when your muscles relax.

[threadbear]

I have pretty chronic physical pain, not the kind that sends you into fits of high pitched screaming, but fairly bad. This kind of suffering can't begin to match the pain of severe depression and anxiety that I experienced as a teenager. When the organ that fashions experience and sensation into a meaningful context is damaged or temporarily impaired, a person is living not just with psychic pain but with the magnifying effects of complete pointlessness.

This is the abyss that some are thrown into or fall into and ironically it is more likely to happen to those who are in alienating environments like North American suburban society. I managed to somehow crawl out of the abyss in my early twenties after two suicide attempts. Believe me, I was no coward. I simply, at the age of 18 after 4 years of unremitting misery decided it wasn't going to end unless I ended it. It was a good thing I wasn't successful-- But it certainly wasn't a decision made lightly or illogically. The last thing people need, if they actually are experiencing a serious problem is people haranguing them, calling them cowards or otherwise burdening them with their own misconceptions and weird ideological baggage.

[AmericanEmpire]

What scares me the most about actually attempting suicide is the possibility of a botched attempt. You could wind up screwed up for life if you didn't kill yourself.

[Heineken]

Much is made of the "botched attempt" problem, but I think that most people who are truly serious about getting off the train will succeed. Failed attempts are often the result of the "cry for help" syndrome; the victim doesn't really want (or need) to die. Our religio-sicko society's approach to suicide should be retooled to better help both the people who are crying for help to live and those who are desperately and incurably ill to commit suicide painlessly and with dignity.

[Heineken]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', 'T')he last thing people need, if they actually are experiencing a serious problem is people haranguing them, calling them cowards or otherwise burdening them with their own misconceptions and weird ideological baggage.

[smallpoxgirl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', 'M')uch is made of the "botched attempt" problem, but I think that most people who are truly serious about getting off the train will succeed.

[Heineken]

That's why we need social support for painless, nonmessy, dignified, and highly effective methods like those promoted by Derek Humphry.

[AmericanEmpire]

What I find totally stupid about our current society is that considering the overpopulation problem we should support as many people as we can who want to end it all.

Instead we prolong life as long as possible with as many people as possible, through medical technology to the point of even hooking people up to machines when there bodies have no way of surviving on their own.

We are willing to be humane and put down a pet when its in incurable pain but not a human. Its ridiculous.

I'd guess it goes back to valuing human life over anything else in the natural world. The whole reason we are in this stupid mess.

[lardlad]

A good book for those interested in this general area is How We Die by Dr Sheldon Nuland.

A sobering read.

[Heineken]

Thanks for the suggestion, lardlad. I have ordered this book.

[Wrencher]

SPGirl and RonMN - You make some great points. One thing that I have seen is sometimes people surprise themselves and other with the courageous way that they face the final trials in their lives. My Graddad, my Father-in=law, and now my Dad have all exhibited a lot of courage as the time ran out in their lives. This I have to contrast with the scars that remain with a friend (years an years later) whose father committed suicide.

I watcherd 'Cinderella Man' recently. The movie showed the terrible conditions that were endured during the Great Depression, and it also showed the great love and courage that Jimmy Braddock showed for his family. I don't know how many of you have seen this movie, but Jimmy Braddock was a heavy weight contender who fought hurt, became a loser, lost his boxing commision, and was forced to work at the docks. Some days he couldn't get a shift, and finally they were forced to send their kids to relitives because they couldn't feed them. Then he gets a break to fight one more time..... and he won..... then another fight.... And he gets into the ring with a really, really tough guy, who should shred him in the first round. He gets hit so hard that the mouth guard pops out of his bloody mouth. He is seeing double,, maybe triple. Then he sees, in his mind, hungry kids, empty beds, overdue bills, hungry and sad wife, and he smiles, puts his mouthguard back in, and goes back to the fight. How very sad it would have been if he would have shot himself when he lost his boxing commsion and left his wife and kids to face the hardships, lonely and alone.

Peak oil is the ultimate test of how we see the world. Is the oilfield half full, or half empty? Are our lives half full or half empty? If we feel that they are half empty, maybe we should fill them with love, service, friends....there is a lot to be done, and most of the world has no clue.

[lardlad]

@Wrencher: if we have a nasty meltdown post-PO and medicines are hard to get, and life becomes an unbearable scramble just to survive, there will be MANY people who will not want to continue.

I picture the poor sad things I saw in the US, often hugely fat, diabetic (or other chronic ill-health), sometimes living on food stamps, living alone in cramped little apartments, often making minimum wage at BigBox Mart, totally dependent on their cars for all the essentials ... for such people, an enormous increase in the hardships of living would be too much.

Try not to be judgemental.

[Wrencher]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lardlad', 'I') picture the poor sad things I saw in the US, often hugely fat, diabetic (or other chronic ill-health), sometimes living on food stamps, living alone in cramped little apartments, often making minimum wage at BigBox Mart, totally dependent on their cars for all the essentials ... for such people, an enormous increase in the hardships of living would be too much.

Try not to be judgemental.

[alpha480v]

Good post Wrencher, I agree totaly.My brother killed himself 5 years ago.

Those that choose to comitt suicide don't stop to think of the pain that they put their loved ones through.All they are concerned about is their problems,real or imagined.It is quite selfish of them really.I will never forgive my brother for the pain that he put his family through,especially our mother.There was no reason at all that we could see as to why he did it.I loved my brother,how dare he do this to his family!

If I ever see my brother in the afterlife if there is one,I'll kick his ass!

[lardlad]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Wrencher', 'B')eing sick, fat, and working at a Big Box and living alone in an appartment doesn't seem like the end of the world to me.

[jesus_of_suburbia_old]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')'m talking about reality, you're talking in theoretical terms. I'm saying what will happen, you're telling us what should happen.

[lardlad]

I wish there was a "special" forum just for the religious types.

Nietzsche had it so right on the religions that emanated from the middle east.

[Wrencher]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lardlad', 'I')'m talking about reality, you're talking in theoretical terms. I'm saying what will happen, you're telling us what should happen.