[Renfield]

On the ANWR and similar argumente I like to use this analogy:

Drilling in ANWR is like giving a starving person a sandwich - piece by piece over 30 years.

[Eli]

Talking about Peak Oil with people who have no interest in it is like teaching a pig to read.

It is a total waste of your time and it can really annoy the pig.

Really, you have to forgive those who can't understand PO and move on. If they are not asking you questions and acting interested in the first 30secs it is best to just not talk about it.

The other thing too is that the problems we are facing are even bigger than PO. PO is just one facet of the problems we are facing.

Good luck explaining that the economy is tanking because of PO when GM, Ford and the Airlines are all having massive layoffs. Good luck too when interest rates go through the roof and housing tanks. It will soon get harder not easier to explain PO.

And when the Bird Flu hits do not even think of talking about PO because if it strikes like it could it will look like the end of the world.

Imagine what it would look like if 25% of the people on your block were sick and locked in there houses and there was a very good chance they would die. If that happens talking seriously about PO will get you a quick punch in the teeth.

[Renfield]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'P')eakoilers have to understand that it is not just the attitude of the unknowing towards the concept of peakoil that has change, but also OUR OWN attitude towards these people....

[EnemyCombatant]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('tinosorb', 'I')t seems that they are in the majority, too, which is a ceaseless source of distress for those of us on the other side.

I recently started a position which requires driving, a modest commute by most standards but too far to ride my bicycle, which is an agony for a number of reasons:

-I think of somebody losing a body part in Iraq and every time I hit the road, I think-- there goes somebody's finger, or 1/10 of a leg, or something like that. My thoughts on this issue are very graphic.

-I also think of those in other countries who are forced to do with less.

-I hate the physical act of city driving. Even if it were free non-polluting, and not dependent on a finite resource, I'd still rather not do it. It's time I can think of ten thousand ways that could be better spent, and it only means I have to spend extra time exercising, which is stupid and crazy.

-I ponder of the quantity of emissions I produce, down to the gram.

-It's a horrible waste of a finite resource.

-It's money that I'd rather not spend on gas.

-I resent having to pay for insurance, maintenance, repairs, tag fees, etc.

In short, it is mentally, morally, emotionally, and viserally abhorent to me.

It's hard to imagine that there are so many people out there who feel entitled to much more.

I will work my way towards a transfer ASAP, even with a cut in pay.

In the meantime I am bearing it because the total package is better than being jobless. The annual grand total is still only a small fraction of what most people drive. And yet it makes me crazy.

[EnemyCombatant]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')"If you believe that, I've got a bridge to sell you" is what I got in response from my bike shop owner. I shut up immediately. He's not a dumb guy, but he just immediately thinks oil scarcity is a conspiracy of the evil oil companies, like so many others.

[SpaciousDreamer]

That's the thing–our crisis is much bigger than just PO. It's water, clean air, arable land, effective gov't, bad lifestyle, climate change, etc. It's the end of everything.

I've already heard people scapegoating "those environmentalists" for blocking ANWR, new refineries, etc. and we do need to have a rebuttal handy for these misinformed souls. If we had a charismatic leader to unite people, someone like Kennedy or FDR, these people could be educated. As nature (and politics) abhors a vacuum, I think we're ripe for a homegrown version of the British Nationalist party to take control. Eco-fascism.

[Curmudgicus]

One thing is for certain. The kind of self-indulgent attitude displayed by the "efin classmate" does make for the perfect consumer.

Years of kids spending hours watching shows and playing games instead of doing their homework has resulted in a lot of uneducated but highly conditioned buyers of unnecessary products - most of which are purchased with borrowed money.

[Eli]

Your mileage may very but

I am of the mind that the crass consumerism that this society has given it self over to has created many people who are borderline psychopaths.

The me first and the world revolves around my pleasure attitude has created many individuals devoid of basic human decency. And when they do not get what they want let alone need there is nothing they won't do to get it.

Modern society is morally and spiritually bankrupt as well.

It is like Oscar Wilde said the only thing worse than not getting what you want is getting exactly what you want.

[rogerhb]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Eli', 'Y')our mileage may very but

I am of the mind that the crass consumerism that this society has given it self over to has created many people who are borderline psychopaths.

[Armageddon]

my friend told me that bush will take care of the high oil prices. idiots are everywhere. im an idiot, but atleast im the kind of idiot who looks deep into matters to see why they are happening instead of just listening and believing to what they are telling us.

[ubercynicmeister]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ardalla', 'S')adly it never seems to get much better. I grew up with people who thought Eisenhower was a communist (Birchers) and George Wallace was the savior of civilization.

You would think that, with more and more people getting college educations, the level of knowlege would be higher.

Ever listen to "Jay Walking" on the Tonight Show?

I should take a poll at work: In what direction does the sun rise in the morning? I'll bet at least 20% of the people would not know.

God knows what I would get if I asked how many moons does the earth have?

[mrniceguy]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ardalla', '
')God knows what I would get if I asked how many moons does the earth have?

[EnergySpin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Antimatter', 'S')o how many of you guys can honestly say you weren't ignorent retarded stupid consuming etc sheeple before you stumbled accross those neat little graphs on dieoff.org?

[EnergySpin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SpaciousDreamer', 'I') think we're ripe for a homegrown version of the British Nationalist party to take control. Eco-fascism.

[holmes]

energy spin u never cease to amaze me. As someone who has had first hand experience with overhoot and massive dieoffs in other non ivory tower countries u say we ecology educated folks are elite. Yet u sir are so elite to be above nature and natural processes. U sir are full of shit. I am not myopic nor elite. You are. there are mistakes in everything. are u perfect? I sure as shit aint.

[EnergySpin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('holmes', 'e')nergy spin u never cease to amaze me. As someone who has had first hand experience with overhoot and massive dieoffs in other non ivory tower countries u say we ecology educated folks are elite. Yet u sir are so elite to be above nature and natural processes. U sir are full of shit. I am not myopic nor elite. You are. there are mistakes in everything. are u perfect? I sure as shit aint.

[LeonDion]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('tinosorb', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Antimatter', 'S')o how many of you guys can honestly say you weren't ignorent retarded stupid consuming etc sheeple before you stumbled accross those neat little graphs on dieoff.org?

[Renfield]

Some things to think about.

That idiot across the street that drives that SUV with a Bush/Cheney sticker may be a carpenter.

That idiot kid down the street that was always squealing the tires on his Mustang is 24 now and may be in medical school.

That idiot you always see at the market who drives the F-150 may be a gardner and know how to work with plants and soils.

That idiot at the theater who drives that Lexus may be an electrical engineer.

All these idiots may not know now what you do or simply may not accept it yet, but one day they will and when that day comes you'll be glad they're around.