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PeakOil is You

THE Hummer/SUV Thread (merged)

What's on your mind?
General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.

Re: SUVs ......do they make a big difference?

Unread postby I_Like_Plants » Tue 20 Sep 2005, 22:23:28

The biggest single thing a person can do is go car-free. If you live close to work, if you can commute to work by bike or bus, etc then that's the biggest thing you can do. If you need a car, then think cheap, effecient, self-maintainable, as much as possible. Then try to use it as little as possible anyway.
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Re: Higher fuel costs devalue SUVs

Unread postby eastbay » Wed 21 Sep 2005, 03:16:41

Because, sadly, wagons have fallen out of automotive fashion. It's hard to find an American-made wagon, or Japanese for that matter. There are just a handful of choices (e.g. Mazda 6, Subaru, Toyota matrix) and they are all very small vehicles.
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Then try and tell us Japanese wagons are out of fashion and too small.
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Re: Higher fuel costs devalue SUVs

Unread postby MrBill » Wed 21 Sep 2005, 11:34:14

Too bad I cannot import my European specs Audi A4 Quattro into N.America. Good mileage and more than enough room. Most SUVs do not have more interior room although they offer clearance. Most of the time I need traction not clearance. In any case, I can drive them 100 mph in Europe and still get over 30 mpg, but they do not meet N.American crash standards at much lower speeds. So you can drive a roll over prone SUV at 55 mph, but not a sleek Audi A4 at much higher speeds safely? Non tariff import barriers? That is my guess. :)
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Re: Higher fuel costs devalue SUVs

Unread postby glug_glug » Wed 21 Sep 2005, 16:17:00

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('eastbay', 'L')isten up. Go to your local Scion dealer today and sit behind the steering wheel of a truly funky and sporty- looking 35 mpg 5 passenger Scion Xb. No, better yet, sit in the back seat and toss a frisbee to the salesman sitting far, far away in the front seat.
Then try and tell us Japanese wagons are out of fashion and too small.

I checked out the xB before settling on the xA. It's quite large to be so efficient. It's as tall as a Jeep Cherokee, only much more efficient. And there is tons of room in the front.
I ultimately chose the xA because it is slightly more efficient and a little lower profile than the xB which stands out too much from the crowd. Now if they could only get mine to the dealership... apparently they are a very hot seller right now (xB's also).

(One important bit of advice: do get the side curtain air bags (must be factory installed). That way you'll have at least some hope if some SUV driving yahoo hits you.)
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Re: Higher fuel costs devalue SUVs

Unread postby FerretOxide » Thu 22 Sep 2005, 01:09:30

I've been waiting for this to actually show itself in the real world; as I figured on it being one of the signs that the winds were shifting. Like most signs once you see them it's to late to change much of anything.
Recently I have noticed it seems to be the smaller SUVs which are appearing for sale most often. I atribute these CRVs and Broncos sudden sale to the fact that they are often purchased by young people who have recently gotten out of school, and middle class condo/townhouse dwellers, whose net worth is only slightly less financed by credit cards than actual savings.
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Re: Higher fuel costs devalue SUVs

Unread postby DoctorDoom » Thu 22 Sep 2005, 17:15:06

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('eastbay', 'L')isten up. Go to your local Scion dealer today and sit behind the steering wheel of a truly funky and sporty- looking 35 mpg 5 passenger Scion Xb. No, better yet, sit in the back seat and toss a frisbee to the salesman sitting far, far away in the front seat.
Then try and tell us Japanese wagons are out of fashion and too small.

There are a few available, to be sure, but there are many more choices in minivans and SUVs, would you not agree? Many marques don't even have a wagon anymore. Hence the statement "out of fashion". Also the wagons that are available typically don't have seating for 6-7, whereas minivans and SUVs can do this, and it's an important criteria for soccer moms (like my sister, who drives a minivan like a madwoman).

Fashoin is slowly changing, there are some new "crossover" vehicles coming to market that have 6-passenger seating in a wagon body style. Of course the ones I know about are heavy and not terribly fuel-efficient. By the way, that describes the Dodge Magnum, too.
The Prius comes close - the hatchback (another out-of-fashion car body type) gives you some of the same capabilities. But, the Prius is kinda geeky and a bit small to be useful to typical wagon drivers.

CAFE didn't kill the wagon, most minivans are car-platform vehicles. But it did give rise to the truck-platformed SUV. The popularity of 4WD for vehicles that never go off-road also helped move people away from car-platform vehicles and towards truck-platform vehicles.
I have never defended CAFE. CAFE is a stupid way to encourage fuel economy. Europe has it right - taxing motor fuel is the efficient, market-oriented way to do it. CAFE is like trying to move the far end of a garden hose by wiggling the end nearest the tap; taxes move the end near the sprinkler!
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Re: Higher fuel costs devalue SUVs

Unread postby JeeBoomba » Fri 23 Sep 2005, 10:59:41

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('DoctorDoom', ' ')Also the wagons that are available typically don't have seating for 6-7, whereas minivans and SUVs can do this,

Granted, I don't live in the suburbs and I don't have kids (and don't hang around people that do), but I have never, not even once, ever seen an SUV with more than 4 people in it. Who the hell is hauling 7 people around?
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Would you buy an SUV in the near future?

Unread postby TOKYO-EXPAT » Mon 03 Oct 2005, 09:38:28

Would you buy a SUV in the future?
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Re: Poll to go with last post

Unread postby Doly » Mon 03 Oct 2005, 10:50:32

Are you kidding? In my case the question would be: would you buy a CAR in the future? And the answer: certainly not!
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Re: Poll to go with last post

Unread postby NeoPeasant » Mon 03 Oct 2005, 11:15:51

Once you have adapted your life to be car independent and your car sits in the garage for weeks at a time, it really doesn't matter much what your vehicle's fuel consumption is.
You soon may be able to pick up a big ole used SUV for a pittance, and it can be quite useful on the rare occasions you drive it.
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Re: Poll to go with last post

Unread postby EnergySpin » Mon 03 Oct 2005, 11:26:39

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('NeoPeasant', 'O')nce you have adapted your life to be car independent and your car sits in the garage for weeks at a time, it really doesn't matter much what your vehicle's fuel consumption is.
You soon may be able to pick up a big ole used SUV for a pittance, and it can be quite useful on the rare occasions you drive it.

I was wondering about that (i.e. a car sitting idle in the garage for 4-5 days/wk and only used in the weekends etc). If one goes almost carless ... then even higher fuel prices than the ones we are seeing will make little difference. I.e. my current car needs are ca 40 miles per week (work related). The car I am driving gets close to 30 mpg. My gas needs for a whole month is then 4 gallons. Even at 10$ per ga, I would only spend 40$ per month. Of course everything else will be horribly expensive at that gas price, but my direct gasoline needs will be minimal.
Of course if Ford had released a hyrbid Focus 3 years ago (the year I bought my car) ....
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Re: Would you buy an SUV in the near future?

Unread postby deconstructionist » Mon 03 Oct 2005, 12:32:08

i received a 1993 toyota 4 runner as a wedding gift. theoreticfally it's a great gift, and i foolishly accepted it--and will soon be selling it. my wife owns a 2000 subaru forester... not great on gas but not horrible... we drive very little. 3 hundred miles a month at the most. we walk or bike wherever we can...
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Re: Would you buy an SUV in the near future?

Unread postby skyemoor » Mon 03 Oct 2005, 13:00:22

I can't believe it when I see large SUVs with 30 day tags around now. And the people who own them seem to be the kind that want to drive fast and intimidate people with their metal bulk.

We bought a Prius in May, so we're set. When the kids get bigger, we'll be able to bike to more places as a family, as the 2 lane 55mph road we are on will no longer have many cars/trucks on it (postPO).
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Re: Would you buy an SUV in the near future?

Unread postby ALBY » Mon 03 Oct 2005, 13:41:12

I have a 1999 3/4 ton suburban I just finished paying off.

It gets about 14 MPG, which is not that much different than a ford explorer, believe it or not.

I bet i will keep this car for another 20 years. In the intermediate future, SUV's may be valuable for carpooling. From this perspective, My burban is much more efficent than a prius. I can take 6 passengers in comfort, 8 passengers max, plus all their stuff.

my daily driver is a passat. i am probably replacing that car with a TDI if it does not last until the real PO emergency is in full swing.
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Re: Would you buy an SUV in the near future?

Unread postby meekoil » Mon 03 Oct 2005, 13:49:09

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ALBY', 'I') have a 1999 3/4 ton suburban I just finished paying off.
It gets about 14 MPG, which is not that much different than a ford explorer, believe it or not.
I bet i will keep this car for another 20 years. In the intermediate future, SUV's may be valuable for carpooling. From this perspective, My burban is much more efficent than a prius. I can take 6 passengers in comfort, 8 passengers max, plus all their stuff.

Ummm, math check. How is this better than 8 people in 2 Priuses (Priui?) get much more than 28MPG each.
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Re: Would you buy an SUV in the near future?

Unread postby ALBY » Mon 03 Oct 2005, 14:02:11

can you fit four people in a prius ? :roll:

please don't interrupt me with 'facts' while im rationalizing my gas guzzler. :wink:
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Re: Would you buy an SUV in the near future?

Unread postby PWALPOCO » Mon 03 Oct 2005, 14:36:20

Thank god my car is leased !
One year and four months to go before I move onto something else , whether it be another car (oh peak oil hasnt happened yet) , a 4x4 (oh boy did we soooo totally get THAT PO thing wrong) or a bike (I knew it would come to this - pant-pant-pant !!)
Anyway , a leased vehicle isnt mine to worry about when the lease expires and the CHTF.
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Re: Would you buy an SUV in the near future?

Unread postby NonToxic » Mon 03 Oct 2005, 14:50:16

Sure if it was 100% electric.
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Re: Would you buy an SUV in the near future?

Unread postby Renfield » Mon 03 Oct 2005, 15:02:05

I've gone to buying cheap, reasonable well kept used vehicles. No long term financial commitments. I like that. Right now I'm driving a 2000 Mustang GT. When I drive like a granny I get about 25 miles to the gallon so it's not too bad and I like the way it looks. Got it for $8,000 and I will be done paying it off in January, just 13 months. Got me where I needed to be. I'll reasses our energy situation in January and if I need to adjust Iquickly I'll hopefully have the wherwithall to do that since I'll be out from under the Mustang payments. Maybe I'll buy a used Focus or Civic by then. Maybe I can get lucky and find an Insight...


But, no. SUV's are absolutly ridiculous. Someone said once that the US is the only country in the world that encourages people to drive themselves to work in Army vehicles.
The U.S. is the only country in the world that encourages people to drive themselves to work in Army vehicles.
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Re: Would you buy an SUV in the near future?

Unread postby fecteau » Mon 03 Oct 2005, 15:12:32

I am a volunteer driver for our local Cancer Society. I drive patients
to Toronto downtown treatment centers. Most of my driving is heavy
stop and go traffic, the air conditioning blasting and 3 to 5 people in
the car. My 2005 prius gets 42 MPG in that mode.

I can attest that you can seat 5 in the prius. It's a bit crowded, 4 is
better. I have taken 3 patients and a heavy walker without problem.
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