[Newfie]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tanada', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('onlooker', 'D')oomers do not censor hope but shine a bright light on the most serious problems

[eclipse]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('eclipse', 'I')F this seaweed scheme can be scaled up to 9% of the world’s oceans it WILL sequester ALL our CO2 emissions

[eclipse]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', 'I')t seems obvious to me that infinite growth is impossible and that our economy relies upon infinite growth. Therefore that the economy is unsustainable and will collapse seems inevitable.

[onlooker]

I like what Newfie states. I think I have never stated timelines but I have been open to the more doomerish predictions in so much as I see no way to rule them out. Specifically, I looked into the AGW doom of Cid Yama and I see no obvious flaw or omission that would rule it out. And in regards to Energy I see a model that attempts to uncover the energetic status of oil reserves utilizing tried and tested pure mathematics and physical laws as well as some regression analysis. This model being the Etp has reached conclusions that do not seem far fetched in the least. So I cannot rule out its conclusions either

[onlooker]

I think Eclipse is offering some genuinely good ideas (see not censoring). Eclipse how would you propose we control and reduce population?

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('eclipse', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('eclipse', 'I')F this seaweed scheme can be scaled up to 9% of the world’s oceans it WILL sequester ALL our CO2 emissions

[eclipse]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('evilgenius', 'T')hat's kind of what Jonah said to God when the people of Nineveh repented. But if he hadn't gone and preached to them they wouldn't have repented. Jonah was actually being selfish in an insidious way. Facing up to narcissism is a difficult task. Babbling on about doom can be about yelling to the world how great you are because you know what is going to happen. It's uncomfortable to a narcissist to be wrong. They will usually come at you with a whole new set of ideas rather than admit they are fallible. Personally, I've had to let go of a lot of my doom, while still remaining skeptical. People have proven to me that they are more resourceful and imaginative than I thought they were. That was hard to do. I had to change.

[onlooker]

okay that is fair arguments Evil and Eclipse. And as for the psychological impetus to hold a doom scenario, I can just as easily say that one exists to NOT hold one. Like fear for instance. It is referred to as confirmation bias.
No doubt some have gone overboard in their doom prognostications. Eclipse you can list many positive trends, I can list many negative ones. I do know that as we speak our consumer tendencies and our huge numbers are degrading and depleting the Earth. The air, the water, the soil all of it. The Limits to growth pertains to what is the least abundant necessary component to sustain a given population or what stresses can break the resilience of a human ecosystem. It is foolish to sound certain on anything with regards to how exactly all this will flesh out. However, what can attempt to highlight certain elements which do offer clues as to our destination. My focus has been to shine the light on problems. Because dire problems do exist. And no single magic bullet can solve them all. If I sound pessimistic it is because we are as a species have not united as we should have to tackle these vexing problems and because we have not done nearly enough to head off the more extreme negative consequences. Our population boomed to 7 plus billion and we have not really built hardly any replacement to our fossil fuel infrastructure and the two most populous countries by far India and China decided it was okay to rev up our impact on Earth greatly by trying to adopt modern affluent lifestyles.

So, my pessimism I believe is warranted in so much as it follow the precautionary principle which colloquially speaking is plan for the worse and hope for the best.

[onlooker]

I submit that the tone of "Why do doomers censor hope?" invokes an appeal to sentiment and emotion. In fact, our debates should attempt to focus on facts not on feelings

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('eclipse', ' ')Increasing wealth is going to stabilise the human population at around 10 billion, and by then we could be living in a largely renewable (+ mainly nuclear) energy economy with largely renewable materials.
I'm not predicting this, but it is possible with the technology we have now.

[eclipse]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'O')K. I watched the TED talk in your link.

[eclipse]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('onlooker', 'I')f I sound pessimistic it is because we are as a species have not united as we should have to tackle these vexing problems and because we have not done nearly enough to head off the more extreme negative consequences.

[eclipse]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'T')here is no reason to believe that humans will suddenly stop reproducing and human population will stabilize at around 10 billion. Human populations have been steadily growing for millennia ----- having babies is something that humans are very good at.

[eclipse]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '3'). Biodiesel from kelp which can more than replace all liquid fuels - as we have seen in the paper above, it can replace ALL fossil fuels. Kelp. Seaweed. Whodathunkit?

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('eclipse', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'T')here is no reason to believe that humans will suddenly stop reproducing and human population will stabilize at around 10 billion.

[eclipse]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'O')f course it is true that a few countries have low birthrates.

[eclipse]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'e')clipse, so many unfounded, untested and/or poorly designed studies. You invest. I sit this one out, thank you.