[Zarquon]

Regarding the construction of thousands of 4th-generation nuclear plants: right now the industry can't even figure out how to build a 3rd-gen. plant without incurring massive losses. Which is not exactly a new phenomenon in the nuke industry.

In France, people love their heavily subsidized cheap power. But EDF/Areva is practically broke. It's not only that they don't have the money to replace their aging fleet - they don't even have the money to scrap the old ones.

The smart money got out of nuke construction already. The ones ending up holding the hot potato, like Toshiba, bleed. The industry faces a large brain-drain of scientists and engineers over the next couple of years. Which investor is going to finance the next generation of plants, and who's going to actually build them?

http://www.theenergycollective.com/ener ... ent-236112

[eclipse]

Hi Ralfy, there's a lot to respond to so I think I'll have to take it bit by bit.
For now, I'll respond to your economic meme with some real world reality:-

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')e offer this statement in the belief that both human prosperity and an ecologically vibrant planet are not only possible but also inseparable. By committing to the real processes, already underway, that have begun to decouple human well-being from environmental destruction, we believe that such a future might be achieved. As such, we embrace an optimistic view toward human capacities and the future.
http://www.ecomodernism.org/manifesto-english/

[eclipse]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ralfy', 'M')ost of the world isn't like Japan. For that to happen, they have to catch up and industrialize first, after which they can also experience the same.

[peripato]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tanada', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('onlooker', 'D')oomers do not censor hope but shine a bright light on the most serious problems

[onlooker]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('peripato', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tanada', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('onlooker', 'D')oomers do not censor hope but shine a bright light on the most serious problems

[eclipse]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('peripato', 'S')o what's the plan for keeping 7.5 bn people, and counting, alive without fossil fuels, and without cooking/strip-mining the planet at the same time?

[peripato]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('eclipse', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('peripato', 'S')o what's the plan for keeping 7.5 bn people, and counting, alive without fossil fuels, and without cooking/strip-mining the planet at the same time?

[ralfy]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('eclipse', 'H')i Ralfy, there's a lot to respond to so I think I'll have to take it bit by bit.
For now, I'll respond to your economic meme with some real world reality:-

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')e offer this statement in the belief that both human prosperity and an ecologically vibrant planet are not only possible but also inseparable. By committing to the real processes, already underway, that have begun to decouple human well-being from environmental destruction, we believe that such a future might be achieved. As such, we embrace an optimistic view toward human capacities and the future.
http://www.ecomodernism.org/manifesto-english/

[ralfy]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('eclipse', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ralfy', 'M')ost of the world isn't like Japan. For that to happen, they have to catch up and industrialize first, after which they can also experience the same.

[jedrider]

So the fundamental problem is that we ran out of Earth. What to do next, what to do?

[eclipse]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ralfy', '
')Your graph doesn't show that. Instead, it shows ecological footprint exceeding biocapacity.

[ralfy]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('eclipse', '
')It shows that if we clean up our energy, we're in one planet living.
It shows other warning areas that we need to improve.
It shows the basic outcome of the current IPAT equation.
If you understand IPAT, you can see the potential solutions.

[eclipse]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ralfy', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('eclipse', '
')It shows that if we clean up our energy, we're in one planet living.
It shows other warning areas that we need to improve.
It shows the basic outcome of the current IPAT equation.
If you understand IPAT, you can see the potential solutions.

[ralfy]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('eclipse', '
')You use words, but they have no meaning.
My last point is self explanatory, and your words that try to discount my words are irrelevant. Everyone knows it was the increase in fossil fuel use since the 1970's that has caused the climate crisis to blow out. When we start to decrease that, our footprint starts to decrease. When we start to mop up excess CO2 with mass kelp-farming & CO2 sequestration, we mop it up further.

I do not need to show that "clean, abundant energy" was primarily responsible for INCREASING our environmental footprint because that is like asking me to prove that the moon is alive, or that up is down, or that hot is cold. Can you try and explain your footprint problem another way? Because you're currently asking me to demonstrate how the solution is the problem, and I've simply got no idea what you're talking about.

[asg70]

The larger issue is the way people argue as a sport for ego gratification rather than a genuine pursuit of truth. You see this in the devolution of political discourse that led us to Trump but you also see it in the style of argumentation here.

http://www.ted.com/talks/daniel_h_cohen ... anguage=en

The majority of the rhetoric here seems to be intended to tear away or tear down at an individual, a group, or a demonized -ism. Anger has a way of blinding us from what's actually happening. It makes us envision a more pessimistic future as a way to deliver "payback" for groups we hate, or envision a more optimistic future as a way to deliver humble-pie to doomers. The truth will probably reside somewhere in the middle in a way that satisfies neither extreme.

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('asg70', 'T')he larger issue is the way people argue as a sport for ego gratification rather than a genuine pursuit of truth. You see this in the devolution of political discourse that led us to Trump but you also see it in the style of argumentation here.

http://www.ted.com/talks/daniel_h_cohen ... anguage=en

The majority of the rhetoric here seems to be intended to tear away or tear down at an individual, a group, or a demonized -ism. Anger has a way of blinding us from what's actually happening. It makes us envision a more pessimistic future as a way to deliver "payback" for groups we hate, or envision a more optimistic future as a way to deliver humble-pie to doomers. The truth will probably reside somewhere in the middle in a way that satisfies neither extreme.

[onlooker]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('asg70', 'T')he larger issue is the way people argue as a sport for ego gratification rather than a genuine pursuit of truth. You see this in the devolution of political discourse that led us to Trump but you also see it in the style of argumentation here.

http://www.ted.com/talks/daniel_h_cohen ... anguage=en

The majority of the rhetoric here seems to be intended to tear away or tear down at an individual, a group, or a demonized -ism. Anger has a way of blinding us from what's actually happening. It makes us envision a more pessimistic future as a way to deliver "payback" for groups we hate, or envision a more optimistic future as a way to deliver humble-pie to doomers. The truth will probably reside somewhere in the middle in a way that satisfies neither extreme.

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('onlooker', ' ')I feel people are genuinely trying to learn, teach and engage in some interesting analysis.

[onlooker]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('onlooker', ' ')I feel people are genuinely trying to learn, teach and engage in some interesting analysis.