[TheDude]

Reading about something like Yamantau Mountain I wonder what the people at the very top plan for the future. Do they believe in the end of oil, and if so, where do they intend to be when the lights go out? Remaining at the top, I'd assume. The Inner Party; Clinton perhaps will be cast as Goldstein.
We're the proles, of course. Well some of you are sharp enough to get into the Outer Party, refs delete scratch forum Post. They'll hold onto all the goodies. Will these scumbags be tooling around in their Hummer[sub]2[/sub]s 50 years from now, while the rest of us scrabble in the dirt?
But then isn't the rest of the world pretty much suffering at our expense right now?

[Newfie]

Frequently in these threads folks use "them" or "they" or "TPTB" or some other device (I'll simply call them all "them") to point to some group that they hold responsible for a particular problem. This always confuses me and I have developed a profound dislike for the practice. None-the-less other folks use it often enough that it deserves attention and clarification. If we can't agree on what a word or phrase, if we have no common definition, then it is meaningless.

I turned to Wiki and came up with this. Not surprisingly Wiki has issues with the page noting:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')his article has multiple issues. Please help improve it or discuss these issues on the talk page.
This article needs additional citations for verification. (May 2009)
This list of examples possibly contains original research. (February 2015)
This article may require cleanup to meet Wikipedia's quality standards. The specific problem is: Most links are dead (October 2015)

[Newfie]

FWIW I first googled "The PEOPLE that be" and found that there are a whole lot of folks, mostly rappers, who use very poor English structure.

[onlooker]

I think Newfie it would be more helpful to cite some of the groups assigned special significance in the literature on TPTB. Here are some of the group names: Council Foreign Relations CFR; Bildenberg group; Free Masons; Fabian society; Illuminati; NWO (New World Order) and Skull and Bones. These groups as far as I have been able to ascertain have all been implicated in consisting of very high up people who are said to be the Powers behind the powers. Or the true elites of the world. Specific mention should be made to two families associated also with inordinate power. The Rothchilds and the Royals of Britain. Finally, the Vatican has also been implicated.

[Newfie]

Some additional definitions, there are many others, but all along the same lines, vague references to some group perceived to be in control.

Macmillan
the people who control a situation. This expression usually shows that you do not agree with their decisions
The powers that be have canceled the show.

Phrases.org.uk (English)

Meaning
The established government or authority.
Origin
This phrase derives from the Bible, Romans 13 - first appearing in print in English in Tyndale's Bible,1526:
13:1 1 Let every soule submit him selfe vnto the auctorite of ye hyer powers. For there is no power but of God.
13:2 The powers that be are ordeyned of God. Whosoever therfore resysteth power resisteth the ordinaunce of God. And they that resist shall receave to the selfe damnacio.

Collins
1. the established authority or administration
Synonyms
= the authorities, the government, the establishment, the people in charge, the men in (grey) suits
Oxford
The authorities
[With biblical allusion to Rom. 13:1]

[Newfie]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('onlooker', 'I') think Newfie it would be more helpful to cite some of the groups assigned special significance in the literature on TPTB. Here are some of the group names: Council Foreign Relations CFR; Bildenberg group; Free Masons; Fabian society; Illuminati; NWO (New World Order) and Skull and Bones. These groups as far as I have been able to ascertain have all been implicated in consisting of very high up people who are said to be the Powers behind the powers. Or the true elites of the world. Specific mention should be made to two families associated also with inordinate power. The Rothchilds and the Royals of Britain. Finally, the Vatican has also been implicated.

[jedrider]

I am a little confused as well and I have NOT read Monty,s conspiracy book yet. If there are NO TPTB,s then we are on auto-pilot and the results will be worst [a point of debate, though].

[Ibon]

Rich and powerful individuals forming alliances with similar folks in order to insure the stability of their privilege is a given. Passing this on along family lines in the form of an oligarchy is logical from their point of view. This much is true. Expecting we can do much about it is wishful thinking. Which of the conspiracy theories are accurate assessments of this is hard to tell. I don't waste my time contemplating this unless I would be prepared to risk my life in fighting it. Which I am not. I prefer to pin my insects and guide guests here in the cloud forest and retreat into my own private world, holding on to the small piece of privilege this affords me.

Why do we even waste a thread discussing this if we aren't prepared to do something about it which really means putting your life on the line. And what concrete benefits will it bring if in the end it only excites the ignorant masses who will chop off our heads along with theirs?

Read your history.

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', 'S')ince you brought up the usual conspiracies

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', ' ')
Was 911 a US government conspiracy or some other conspiracy {insert Bilderbergs, Illuminati, etc here] or is the official story about the 19 hijackers from the Middle East accurate?

Did the USA land on the moon repeatedly with manned spacecraft?

Are Jews behind all the evil in the world that you can observe?

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jedrider', 'I') am a little confused as well and I have NOT read Monty,s conspiracy book yet. If there are NO TPTB,s then we are on auto-pilot and the results will be worst [a point of debate, though].

[kanon]

I would like to propose, for discussion sake, that TPTB is a cultural effect. Suppose that people are not truly honest about their motivations or concerns and also do not accurately perceive the social structures in which they function. Then TPTB are dominant drives or impulses within the culture that cannot be directly expressed, but must occasionally be acknowledged. In the English speaking societies the financial interests, centered around banking cartels, are the dominant economic and cultural group, IMHO. So, TPTB is mainly a reflection of the interests and actions of the banking cartels, but it can also include other special interests that occasionally rise in prominence or even some powerful social class interests such as racial prejudice. While I am certain there are conspiracies occurring every day, I think most "conspiracy theories" are really pointing out that similarly situated people tend to do similar things. Since our society is stratified into classes, one lacks direct experience outside one's class, and TPTB refers to a higher class that supposedly has power over one's (lower) class, without really understanding the actual motivations and concerns of the higher class. This class structure is reinforced mainly through money and credit with a myriad of legal devices (regulations, taxes, subsidies, liability) and resource allocations (transportation, housing, pollution), most of which are described in a false and deceptive manner, such as safety regulations, national defense, economic theory, etc. IOW, TPTB is an expression of societal patterns that cannot be easily opposed. The TPTB motivations and concerns are usually centered around continuing to be TPTB, IMHO, FWIW -- just sayin'.

[Cog]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', '
')Why do we even waste a thread discussing this if we aren't prepared to do something about it which really means putting your life on the line. And what concrete benefits will it bring if in the end it only excites the ignorant masses who will chop off our heads along with theirs?

.

[Cog]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', ' ')
Was 911 a US government conspiracy or some other conspiracy {insert Bilderbergs, Illuminati, etc here] or is the official story about the 19 hijackers from the Middle East accurate?

Did the USA land on the moon repeatedly with manned spacecraft?

Are Jews behind all the evil in the world that you can observe?

[jedrider]

Is TPTB like a social club, but based upon influence and money instead, where ostracism is the most feared? Is it why Jack Kennedy was shot because he no longer feared ostracism? Ditto for Bobby Kennedy.

[Cog]

Perhaps Jack Kennedy was shot because a certain wack-job called Oswald had the means, motivation, and desire to kill him. I know this idea sounds crazy to a conspiracy theorist.

[onlooker]

I find it useless to talk to some people about this as they are firm in their denial. In fact is that not the case for alot of things as we have discovered on this planet. The word conspiracy has come to have a derogatory inference to it. Which is what TPTB wish. Nobody is saying these people are omnipotent or for that matter devils in disguise. What I am saying is that throughout history certain people have had inordinate power over the directions taken by large groups like countries and empires. That is all. It is not a far fetched or particularly outrageous claim. Have we not had kings, emperors, pharaohs etc with tyrannical powers in our history. Well, in this case it is a group of people who while not necessarily agreeing on everything have enough in common to pursue a trajectory beneficial to all. Namely the rule of money.

[Newfie]

Cog,
Generally I'm very anti-conspiracy theory. But believing that Oswald acted alone is a stretch too far for me.

Then there is that taped conversation between LBJ and Hoover.

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/ ... ov1963.htm

[Cog]

Depends on what you mean by acted alone. Oswald took the shots that killed the president. The fact that others in the world liked what happened is irrelevant.

[Newfie]

It's OK to disagree Cog.