[SeaGypsy]

How anyone writes a conspiracy book leaving out 9/11 is beyond me. Worse, either representing cognitive dissonance or obfuscating, diverting attention. The moon landings are amusing to study as certainly plenty of fakery & lying was done regarding the Apollo program, but even less conclusive than 9/11. There is a pile of evidence Oswald was anything but alone. (No point at all in going through all these again, really, I'm just outing my position.)

On Newfie's OP, I do concur insofar as the tendency in use of TPTB tags is developing a consensus 'them'- with 'special' or 'absolute' power, acting consistently for their own interest & against the interests of the masses- in a highly conscious & sophisticated continuum. This is bogey man stuff.

Conspiracy happens, sometimes at levels which trigger world changing events. But the formation of conspiracy is ad-hoc, fit for purpose & time. Yesterday's enemy, today's friend, tomorrow's slaughterhouse.

The so called 'illuminati' are not more enlightened than a bunch of inbred rednecks. They murder each other & their own children if it suits them. They form & break alliances like 13 year old girls. They do not act consistently & cohesively. They do not have a plan, short of remaining at the top of the pile as long as possible.

So there is a 'them' but the term is so vague as to be useless for much else than conjuring quasi- supernatural personal demons. Unfortunately this is how most people need their 'truth' served up.

[Cog]

The NIST team never claimed that fire melted steel. Only the conspiracy theorists claimed that. What NIST claimed, and is a well known scientific principle, is that structural steel weakens when exposed to flame.

This short video explains all this. Simple and to the point. No need for 1000's of co-conspirators, guys sneaking around planting explosives, or any of the other nonsense surrounding 911.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXxynEDpwrA

[onlooker]

I think a former President had a quite different view of the "Illiminati" here again is a very revealing speech by President John F. Kennedy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhkjYJA ... w&index=22

[SeaGypsy]

The example you focus on Onlooker, try looking at it from a tribal perspective. An extension of the Protestant vs Catholic power struggle. You can track back various lines of power to around & even before JCs time. At no point were any of these lines of power uncontested. At no point did any of them actually 'rule the world'. Empires came & went in the Americas & Asia, affecting more people than were in Europe at the time, without drawing the attention of our Anglo-Roman focused historians until many centuries later.
At JFKs time the USA was just establishing itself as the global military hegemony we think of today. Intelligences out to control this military might have of course invested heavily. However the same principle applies- the Empire is contested, does not actually 'rule the world' & there are simultaneous empirical movements happening around the world which hardly rate a mention as the Anglo American Empire's colonies virtually all enter first world status while the Latino- Roman Empires colonies devolve into corrupt cess pits. Anyway it's a rabbit warren topic. How far do you want to go?

[Ibon]

During ascendancy of resource consumption and population growth the elite looks upon the middle class as an asset to aid in their wealth accumulation. During contraction the middle class becomes a liability. A powerful elite that begins to horde for themselves and increase disparity of wealth weakens the middle class, the largest segment of consumers. If the elite succeeds to the point of reducing the global middle class to serfdom, will this be positive for our biosphere?

[onlooker]

I believe it will be a positive. Anything that can substantially reduce consumption would be a positive. Also, with living standards falling everywhere I would expect that mortality rates will increase which would also be a positive. The only problem would be fertility and what trajectory that would take. All these problems though will be transitory as Nature will have the final say and appears poised to reduce both our population and our material growth patterns.

[SeaGypsy]

Ibon isn't talking about a choice to use less, he is talking about contraction in availability.

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'H')ow anyone writes a conspiracy book leaving out 9/11 is beyond me.

[SeaGypsy]

Snicker, OK beside the point I haven't read your book obviously. 9/11 is an epic topic & another rabbit warren. Using 9/11 as example, the leading conspiracy theories implicate a handful of specific people, suggest collusion at some very high up military intelligence level etc. That I have seen they don't directly imply a global elite Cabal, more like an extremely sophisticated psy-ops intelligence operation, perhaps with very few people having the overall picture.

[vtsnowedin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '[') I can think of no other modern chief of state who would continue to pose for warm pictures while listening to a young girl telling stories about her pet goat while hijacked planes were crashing into three buildings.

[onlooker]

The actual event of 911 may not necessarily point to a global elite Cabal, but the reasoning behind it certainly does. Check out this passage from a link I will leave you guys below "September 11, 2001 provides a justification for waging a war without borders." This is related to the thread I started about War on Terrorism equal False Flag. The world is without doubt going to go thru turbulent times. These elites may not even be doing all this for nefarious reasons. They may think they are reducing the overall harm and suffering to come. What is clear is that they are acting as if they do wish to install a NWO ie. New World Order that resembles 1984 by George Orwell. Highlighted by a state of continuous war intended to distract and gain the loyalty of much of the population and marginalize the remaining as terrorists, misfits , anarchists etc. Also, to attain an extreme level of control and authority as already can be seen by certain laws and actions that the US government especially under Bush has bought about and enacted. All in keeping with the vision of a world in turmoil and hardship but whereby those at the top monetarily and in hegemony can continue to live well. Here is the link: Oh and Monty you can correct me if I am not being accurate. http://www.globalresearch.ca/war-terror ... ts/5497812

[vtsnowedin]

parinoid.

[SeaGypsy]

Did you read what KJ posted about fascism in your thread Onlooker? It would fit here. My agreement with Newfie here is that even in light of the most vivid conspirational evil in our times, no controlling global elite is present. They are gangsters competing for various prizes. A global controlling fascist elite singular would have no need of obfuscation, proxy & psy ops warfare, they would simply kill anyone opposing them. There are some big serious nefarious entities yes. Is there synchronicity & collusion between them with any consistency? It seems not. Like the rest of us, they are human beings defending their status or extending it, they do not control the world, just most of what most people know about it.

[KaiserJeep]

I remember watching 9/11 on live TV. The sheer novelty of the idea of using airliners as cruise missiles paralyzed me as much as George W. Bush. In fact I could not grasp the concept until minutes after the second plane struck on both towers. It had to be deliberate, then - as much as I did not want to believe it.

Attributing to a government conspiracy the quite normal mental resistance to a startling new concept is both unnecessary and foolish.

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', ' ')And just what would you or any world leader you can name have done at that moment that would have been better? And how would you have done it without traumatizing the children present?

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', ' ')A global controlling fascist elite singular would have no need of obfuscation, proxy & psy ops warfare, they would simply kill anyone opposing them.

[SeaGypsy]

We agreed a few years ago here that 9/11 requires quarantining. We don't need to derail another thread, probably both sides here on 9/11 would agree that the grand conspiracy theory popular with truther sites is straw man theory. Back on why bring it up- because it is a significant example of where the popular idea of a PTB Cabal gains popularly.

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KaiserJeep', 'A')ttributing to a government conspiracy the quite normal mental resistance to a startling new concept is both unnecessary and foolish.

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'W')e agreed a few years ago here that 9/11 requires quarantining.

[onlooker]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', ' ')A global controlling fascist elite singular would have no need of obfuscation, proxy & psy ops warfare, they would simply kill anyone opposing them.