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Let's dig up dead people because they are racist

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Re: Let's dig up dead people because they are racist

Postby americandream » Tue 14 Jul 2015, 10:01:13

Cog

What do you honestly expect. What would your sentiments be were icons of the Islamic Empire to be planted in your neighbourhood.

It is quite reasonable for a black American to seek to expunge any memory of his slave past. To expect otherwise of him would then place a similar standard on you.

In a fully conscious society there would be no basis for these feelings as there simply would not be the highly emotional factionalism that stalks us, in a sort of bastardised play of our pristine animal brethrens instinct driven world.

The racist plantations of the Deep South were a variant the feudal estates of Europe when free labour was the only option and the black or white peasant an easy target.
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Re: Let's dig up dead people because they are racist

Postby Sixstrings » Tue 14 Jul 2015, 10:03:13

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Withnail', 'I')'m sure you could find a Jew who defends the Nazis if you look hard enough. There are always nutters.

No they should not be respected any more than racists like you should be.


Go take the Scottish flag down, see how they like it up there. :razz:
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Re: Let's dig up dead people because they are racist

Postby Withnail » Tue 14 Jul 2015, 10:07:01

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Withnail', 'I')'m sure you could find a Jew who defends the Nazis if you look hard enough. There are always nutters.

No they should not be respected any more than racists like you should be.


Go take the Scottish flag down, see how they like it up there. :razz:


Take what Scottish flag down where? We don't have any round here, since I don't live in Scotland. There is a Union Jack flying just down the road from me at the social club.

Or were you trying to say the Scottish flag is a symbol of racism and slavery like the Confederate flag?

Or that Scotland wasn't an independent country for many hundeds of years with its own flag, unlike the Confederacy?

The similarities between Scotland and the Confederacy seem non existent to be honest.
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Re: Let's dig up dead people because they are racist

Postby Sixstrings » Tue 14 Jul 2015, 10:17:57

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Withnail', 'O')r were you trying to say the Scottish flag is a symbol of racism and slavery like the Confederate flag?


Well the picts were brutal, that's why there's a Hadrian's Wall. But that's all in the past, right? Modern Scots aren't to blame for that, right?

What if ONE IDIOT / crazy person did a crime while holding a Scottish flag and then the British Parliament started pressuring to remove the Scottish flag from society?

Your country actually is the one that has a very bad north / south divide, right now in 2015. On the verge of secession. English say "let them go, we didn't like them anyway" and Scots say "you don't respect us, we want to go." (that's the gist I get from the opinions of english and Scots, and it's sad, the country needs to stay together and both sides work it out)

Over here, it's not about secession like in the UK, Southern Americans are some of the most patriotic Americans there are. And the red states are over-represented in the US armed forces and officer corps.

That flag is just a nascar thing and it's just a country folks thing and it's no different than Texas with their lone star republic stuff and while the flag was misused at times -- otherwise, it is just not true that anyone with a rebel flag is a horrible racist.

I don't have a rebel flag and would not have one but that's because I'm urban and I appreciate history but I'm not culturally "country" and no direct ancestors though civil war history is big in my state and it's just always been there. History, in perspective, and all the history, with museums and historical sites.

I would not have a rebel flag, I'm just not that identified with Southern I'm like in the middle on the culture. But I support the minority's right to have one and I know they aren't all horrible racists.

There's no way I can explain it to you, I'm sorry.

I'm not "redneck" but I have some redneck family and I actually know they are not "racists." It's 2015, the country really is trans-racial, and I think it is the Left that decided to make a divide out of nowhere. All for political gain.
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Re: Let's dig up dead people because they are racist

Postby Withnail » Tue 14 Jul 2015, 10:26:04

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Withnail', 'O')r were you trying to say the Scottish flag is a symbol of racism and slavery like the Confederate flag?


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', 'W')ell the picts were brutal, that's why there's a Hadrian's Wall. But that's all in the past, right? Modern Scots aren't to blame for that, right?


Scotland wasn't a country then.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', 'W')hat if ONE IDIOT / crazy person did a crime while holding a Scottish flag and then the British Parliament started pressuring to remove the Scottish flag from society?


Even if that happened, which it won't, it wouldn't reflect on the Scottish flag. Scotland did not fight a war in defence of enslaving black people. Scotland was not conquered at all.


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '
')
Over here, it's not about secession like in the UK, Southern Americans are some of the most patriotic Americans there are. And the red states are over-represented in the US armed forces and officer corps.



The trouble is 'patriotism' often seems to involve other 'isms'.
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Re: Let's dig up dead people because they are racist

Postby Sixstrings » Tue 14 Jul 2015, 10:33:07

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Withnail', 'E')ven if that happened, which it won't, it wouldn't reflect on the Scottish flag. Scotland did not fight a war in defence of enslaving black people. Scotland was not conquered at all.


The picts were barbarians, no? Caused a lot of grief to Roman empire england?

The picts did a lot of bad things, I don't think they were good people, by 2015 standards, but I don't judge people in the past by 21st century standards.

Because the ENGLISH too have a big massive horrible history of their own, including worldwide slavery, look up some history about British sugar plantations in the carribean.

It was the BRITISH that brought slavery to America. We were British, too, we were Brits that got on ships and we were colonies of the Crown. And bankers and people in London were very much involved in the slave trade.

England had the HARDEST time taming the Scots and it took centuries, and there were civil wars, no?

By the way, a lot of the South is Scots heritage -- hard headed, stubborn folk! :razz:
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Re: Let's dig up dead people because they are racist

Postby Lore » Tue 14 Jul 2015, 10:34:18

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KaiserJeep', 'I')t's amusing to read this thread.

Some people would like to deny the History of the Democratic party. It was founded by Andrew Jackson, a slave owner and racist, who also favored stealing land from Native Americans and forcibly relocating them to reservations. The Democrats also presented the only organised resistance to the ERA, which if ever passed would give women the right to vote in the USA. These same people also want to smear the Republican party, which really was founded by Abraham Lincoln on a platform of anti-slavery and in fact always has been and continues to be about equal rights for all people.

These same people want to point to Obama and consider his very existence as proof that they themselves as Democrats, and that party, are anti-racist.

Dream on. Obama's history as a community organizer, his history of litigation as a lawyer in Chicago, his legislative sponsorships, and most of all, his flawed appointments of obvious, flagrantly racist people to multiple positions of authority throughout his administration, are the acts of the most racist person to occupy the position of POTUS since that prototypical Democrat Andrew Jackson.

You just cannot handle the truth, can you? This entire controversy is about some Democrats attempting to suppress the range of Diversity found in the Democratic party. The same party which contains both White Southern Pride groups (including the KKK) and that most racist group of Americans, the Blacks.


The Democratic Party's roots go back to Thomas Jefferson and James Madison. The party has changed significantly since its founding with most of the Southern Dixiecrats defecting to the Repulican party mid last century when the party went into a complete ideological change. The suppression of diversity has now been coming mostly all from the Right in the last 70 years.
The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.
... Theodore Roosevelt
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Re: Let's dig up dead people because they are racist

Postby Withnail » Tue 14 Jul 2015, 10:40:27

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Withnail', 'E')ven if that happened, which it won't, it wouldn't reflect on the Scottish flag. Scotland did not fight a war in defence of enslaving black people. Scotland was not conquered at all.


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', 'T')he picts were barbarians, no? Caused a lot of grief to Roman empire england?


According to the Romans they were barbarians. England didn't exist at the time.


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', 'B')ecause the ENGLISH too have a big massive horrible history of their own, including worldwide slavery, look up some history about British sugar plantations in the carribean.


Not denied. I read the recent article in the Guardian about widespread slave ownership in the UK.

But again, the British did not fight a war in defence of the slavery of black people against another combatant trying to make them stop doing it.


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '
')
England had the HARDEST time taming the Scots and it took centuries, and there were civil wars, no?



The first king of the Uk was Scottish.
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Re: Let's dig up dead people because they are racist

Postby americandream » Tue 14 Jul 2015, 10:43:09

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', 'h')ard headed, stubborn folk! :razz:


Not quite. Scots Irish.......who are largely English plants in Ireland and some Scots proddy settlers (in Ireland).

The Scots are quite a radical lot, politically but have been tarred with the Scots Irish brush which isnt quite the same. Apart from a few Orange types in Glasgow, the Scots are fiercely independent minded.

The Picts preceded the Gaels and tended to lurk in the north around Inverness and beyond.
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Re: Let's dig up dead people because they are racist

Postby Sixstrings » Tue 14 Jul 2015, 10:59:06

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('americandream', '[')b]the Scots are fiercely independent minded.


EXACTLY.

"Independent minded."

And that is my analogy regarding the "red states," in the US. Versus more central federalist government "blue states."

And I'm actually a "federalist" anyway -- but I'm just saying, let the "independent minded" red staters have their rebel flag if they want to, if they are not racists or doing anything wrong to anybody.

This is NOT all about slavery history and racial problems in the past history.

It's a "independent minded thing" as well! I don't know historically why, what the reason is, but the confederate flag AND the scottish flag both have the cross of saint andrew on it. Maybe confederates felt like "rebels" the way that Scotland always was.

Image

By the way -- I do not in any way minimize the horrible things that happend 55 years ago in the civil rights era.

But honestly -- that really was over half a century ago. The racism just is not there anymore, no matter how many monuments that the Left wants to look under, no matter how many graves they want to dig up, no matter how many flags activists want to tear down, having trespassed on and violated private residential property -- if it's just a political stunt then nobody may care, if it's a prank then okay, but a homeowner does not really KNOW.

That's like terrorizing people, if people start coming after rebel flags on private residential property.

I put all the BLAME squarely on the media and our leadership in government, and the far left, that created this insanity and these divisions -- and have incited far left activists to go onto private residential property to tear down flags. There were no moderate voices in this whole whole thing, it was just a WALL of left wing intolerance with nobody saying "okay let's slow down here, these people at nascar with the flag on their RV are okay."

P.S. and I'll state again, I actually think it will be okay -- there are responsible people in government that really do not WANT to be inciting this SH*T in our country.

So I actually think even Nancy Pelosi will cool it, in the end, and other voices like Jim Webb will speak up. We all love our country -- AMERICA -- and Nancy Pelosi loves it too, she'll do the right thing in the end and pull the Left back on all this.

NONE of us wants people in the streets fighting with each other over a FLAG. That is horrible, that is the LAST thing anyone in big media or the government should be inciting and it was HIGHLY IRRESPONSIBLE of them to have done it as much as they have!

I swear, I have never seen anything like it in my entire life.
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Re: Let's dig up dead people because they are racist

Postby americandream » Tue 14 Jul 2015, 11:35:54

Independent as in think for themselves and not for some laird (or in your case, plantation owner). Dont presume to confuse the Scots with that rabble who sailed Ulster for the Americas.
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Re: Let's dig up dead people because they are racist

Postby Withnail » Tue 14 Jul 2015, 11:36:05

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '
')
This is NOT all about slavery history and racial problems in the past history.



The Confederate flag is primarily about slavery history and racial problems in the past history.
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Re: Let's dig up dead people because they are racist

Postby Sixstrings » Tue 14 Jul 2015, 11:39:29

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('americandream', 'W')hat do you honestly expect. What would your sentiments be were icons of the Islamic Empire to be planted in your neighbourhood.


There are muslim mosques in the South.

After 9/11, there was some anti-muslim push that happened, and even in NYC they were saying maybe mosques shouldn't be built in certain places. And then leadership in government, and the media, and society said "ok hold up here guys, that's unamerican we can't be doing this and discriminating against all muslims."
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Re: Let's dig up dead people because they are racist

Postby Sixstrings » Tue 14 Jul 2015, 11:43:46

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Withnail', 'T')he Confederate flag is primarily about slavery history and racial problems in the past history.


It actually is not, not since after the 1970s. All you guys opining on this, just have never been to rural parts of America and therefore you do not understand or know or have any kind of reference.

I think fellow Americans know I am right, surely they do, that NO -- those people with rebel flags at nascar are not horrible racists that hurt anyone.

And that no, if you see a rebel flag on a house, it does not mean it's some horrible awful person that lives there or is racist or has ever discriminated against anyone in their life.
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Re: Let's dig up dead people because they are racist

Postby Sixstrings » Tue 14 Jul 2015, 11:55:17

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'C')hesterfield mom says someone pulled a gun on her Confederate Flag waving family

MOSELEY, Va. — A Chesterfield mother called police after she said someone drove up and pointed a gun at her family. The mother said she, her husband, her son and a roommate were waving the Confederate Flag on Hull Street in Moseley during the Monday night incident.

In addition to flashing the weapon, the mother said the man yelled something at them before he drove off.

Chesterfield Police confirmed officers were looking for a person accused of brandishing a weapon. Police have not yet released information about a suspect nor suspect vehicle in this case.
http://wtvr.com/2015/07/14/confederate-flag-gun/
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Re: Let's dig up dead people because they are racist

Postby Withnail » Tue 14 Jul 2015, 11:58:21

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Withnail', 'T')he Confederate flag is primarily about slavery history and racial problems in the past history.


It actually is not, not since after the 1970s. All you guys opining on this, just have never been to rural parts of America and therefore you do not understand or know or have any kind of reference.



There is no need to display a different flag in the South because the South has never been a different country.
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Re: Let's dig up dead people because they are racist

Postby americandream » Tue 14 Jul 2015, 12:00:25

six

For someone who is forever bleating on about the unconstitutional behaviour of Russia, it strikes me as rather unconstitutional to fly the flag of a mutinous and defeated political entity and one which evokes such unwarranted distress and fear in a significant portion of the plural American nation. Lets get this correct, for all your I am a regular guy, you consistently show yourself to be an obsequious and repulsive reactionary of the worse kind.
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Re: Let's dig up dead people because they are racist

Postby Sixstrings » Tue 14 Jul 2015, 12:18:56

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Withnail', 'T')here is no need to display a different flag in the South because the South has never been a different country.


The confederacy lasted four years. There was a constitution, full independent infrastructure and money, a full federal government of its own, president and cabinet, and all the existing state governments before the seceded.

As a region, the South was always a distinct place, going back to before the Revolution. Same with New England, etc., and even today in places like Texas they feel very distinct and they have the whole "Lone Star Republic" thing.

Image

Even today, there are red states and blue states, divided along the same mason dixon line that they always were going all the way back to before the Revolution.

The division between red states and blue states is about political philosophy, big federal government versus small government / leave more to the states / local decisions. Big society, versus individualism.

This goes all the way back to Thomas Jefferson (virginia) opposing Hamilton (New York) on the things like a "national bank."

This ideological divide has generally kept hold, for centuries, with "blue state" federalism winning out more, in recent times.

(I'm a Union federalist guy anyway, all I'm saying is don't take the darn flag away and dukes of hazard and the NOT RACIST culture things away, is it too much to ask?)
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Re: Let's dig up dead people because they are racist

Postby Withnail » Tue 14 Jul 2015, 12:23:58

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Withnail', 'T')here is no need to display a different flag in the South because the South has never been a different country.


The confederacy lasted four years. There was a constitution, full independent infrastructure and money, a full federal government of its own, president and cabinet, and all the existing state governments before the seceded.



If the entity hadn't been founded on the right to own people of different skin colour as property i would have had some sympathy, but it was.
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Re: Let's dig up dead people because they are racist

Postby americandream » Tue 14 Jul 2015, 12:30:57

six

It does not matter if the Souths identity was a hunderd years old distinct or even centuries old, constitutional sauce for Russia is constitutional sauce for sixstrings. You cant have it both ways.

In addition much of your racial problems are down to this repreted humiliation of a segment of your population. This reminds me of the Protestant marches through the Catholic areas of Belfast brandishing the flag of William of Orange. The UK government would not tolerate unconstitutional flags in its territory but even then, the Orange thugs make sure the humiliation is driven home year in year with another humiliating reminder and people wonder why N Ireland remains imprisoned in the Reformation.

I take your point that the South has a distinct culture but like the Protestants in N Ireland, they cannot expect the blacks to sit back and take it with a smile. Thats unreasonable.
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