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Let's dig up dead people because they are racist

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Re: Let's dig up dead people because they are racist

Postby Plantagenet » Sun 12 Jul 2015, 14:30:40

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('C8', '
')Its incredibly petty to dig up somebody's grave. The mind that demands this is not a healthy one and not a mind that is ever secure or satisfied. This is what savages do.


Its not a symptom of mental illness---its all about politics and political power.

Blacks see the civil war monuments and confederate flags as symbols of slavery and the subsequent jim crow system the southern Democrats designed to keep them out of power. Its not unreasonable for blacks and other people to want to see these monuments and flags removed now.

Ideally, the removal of confederate symbols from government facilities would be balanced with a logical restraint that allowed the preservation of historic monuments. But I wouldn't count on it. 8)
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Re: Let's dig up dead people because they are racist

Postby Lore » Sun 12 Jul 2015, 15:05:29

Yes, I wouldn't count on red state republican legislatures to allow this to happen.
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Re: Let's dig up dead people because they are racist

Postby Plantagenet » Sun 12 Jul 2015, 15:31:24

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lore', 'I') wouldn't count on red state republican legislatures to allow this to happen.


As usual, you don't know what is going on.

Just last week the Confederate flag that the D governor and D legislators put up 50 years ago in South Carolina was taken down thanks to the R governor and R legislators in South Carolina.

Cheers!
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Re: Let's dig up dead people because they are racist

Postby Lore » Sun 12 Jul 2015, 15:41:51

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lore', 'I') wouldn't count on red state republican legislatures to allow this to happen.


As usual, you don't know what is going on.

Just last week the Confederate flag that the D governor and D legislators put up 50 years ago in South Carolina was taken down thanks to the R governor and R legislators in South Carolina.

Cheers!


Maybe it's you that should take another look. That was a bipartisan vote 94/20, with Republican Rep. Michael Pitts leading the charge to derail taking it down. Those Dixiecrats of 50 years ago are now Republicans.

These same Republicans and more will make sure that old Confederates remain in their graves.
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Re: Let's dig up dead people because they are racist

Postby Sixstrings » Sun 12 Jul 2015, 17:45:40

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lore', 'T')hese same Republicans and more will make sure that old Confederates remain in their graves.


Are you honestly in favor of grave exhumation and removal of 170 year old remains?

Because the remains of the dead, under the ground, are somehow so offensive to a nebulous "somebody" out there? I've never even met one of these "offended" people before. Where are the millions out marching in the streets, so offended by distant past history, can you point them out to me?

It's honestly like.. people LOOK for things, to be "offended" by.

It's like.. people don't even wait to actually get offended by something.. now they go on facebook and talk about things that maybe they should be offended by, and then discuss and figure it out if they are offended or not, and then they move on to the next object to go look at that and then talk about it and figure out if they are offended, or not.

This far left "we are so offended by all these things" political correct stuff, is every bit as much controlling and "fascsisty" as ultra far right relgious types that get offended by everything, too.

Does anyone get my point?

That it's actually JUST AS BAD to have the far extreme left in charge, as it would be to have Pat Robertson and the religious police in charge? Heck, climate change actually IS religion now, that's a marriage made in heaven right there. Inquisition, witch hunts, existential guilt trips.

I'm a moderate. I'm in the middle. I don't like all far right, and I sure as heck don't like all far Left either.

BOTH are intolerant, BOTH like to shut down free speech, BOTH like to tell other people what to do, what flag they can and can't buy, or like Apple's CEO deciding people can't buy civil war strategy games or tvland saying nobody can watch Dukes of Hazzard anymore, or nascar telling people what flag they can put on their RV.

edit: you know what it reminds me of.. home owners associations.. "condo nazi" types.. walking around, getting offended by every little thing on eveybody's property. They're just busybodies, far right religious are often like that, and the far left are too! They're peas in a pod, those two!
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Re: Let's dig up dead people because they are racist

Postby Lore » Sun 12 Jul 2015, 17:52:47

We have no problem digging up every old Indian that suits our curiosity.
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Re: Let's dig up dead people because they are racist

Postby Sixstrings » Sun 12 Jul 2015, 18:08:51

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lore', 'W')e have no problem digging up every old Indian that suits our curiosity.


The Memphis City Council are not archaeologists. They're not digging up Forrest, and his wife, to study history.
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Re: Let's dig up dead people because they are racist

Postby Lore » Sun 12 Jul 2015, 18:14:41

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lore', 'W')e have no problem digging up every old Indian that suits our curiosity.


The Memphis City Council are not archaeologists. They're not digging up Forrest, and his wife, to study history.


So, it's just time then you're saying that makes the difference?

You know in Europe there are cemeteries where they remove the bones of people for non payment, or being overcrowded all the time. No big deal.
The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.
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Re: Let's dig up dead people because they are racist

Postby Sixstrings » Sun 12 Jul 2015, 18:48:39

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lore', 'S')o, it's just time then you're saying that makes the difference?

You know in Europe there are cemeteries where they remove the bones of people for non payment, or being overcrowded all the time. No big deal.


One of the city council members asked if this was really an eminent domain thing, and just a backdoor way for the university of tennessee to do a $500 million expansion (they need the land the statue is on). And that would actually make sense, to me, except for the fact that what they ought to do is just MOVE the statue and the remains somewhere else. If it's really so the university can get the land.

What Memphis plans to do though, unless blocked by legal challenges (including the family), is just SELL the statue to "whoever wants to buy it." I'm not sure where they plan to put the remains of Forrest and his wife, and there are also laws about THAT too so maybe this whole thing won't go through.

They should at least be respectful about it. There are living family involved.

Other than that -- yes, this is up to each city what they want to do, but you know REALLY the votes on this stuff SHOULD HAVE been put off until the next council / county commission / state elections in all these places. Give the PEOPLE a chance to VOTE before they just tear down monuments.

Look at a place like New Orleans -- it's up to them what they want to do, but actually the confederate history and the statues and memorials are a neat part of the big cultural / historical gumbo they've got. French, pirates, cajun, confederate, Spanish, American history -- all in one place. It's a shame to rip one part of it, out. That's just my opinion.

What bothers me is like it's really just a FAD (or a "thing," that's the new terminology :lol: ) -- like the "pet rock" back in the 1970s -- it's like everybody just wants in on it, and they just want to remove whatever confederate thing there is, just because it's a fad -- they're not really offended, it's just a fad or something.

There's debate in my state, about a very harmless veterans' statue. It's actually quite a nice statue, artistic, tasteful:

Image
Image

So even something like that -- people just want in on the "fad," to throw it out just because that's what's hip right now, when really there is nothing offensive about it. It's not even a "general" or any specific person.
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Re: Let's dig up dead people because they are racist

Postby Sixstrings » Sun 12 Jul 2015, 19:06:29

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')b]Hundreds rally for Nathan Bedford Forrest statue

On Sunday, hundreds of Forrest supporters filled Health Sciences Park as a part of an annual commemoration and to rally support for keeping the statue in place after the city council voted to remove the statue and the graves of Forrest and his wife.

Today's event included Civil War re-enactors. Many brought Confederate flags.

"We're here to show support to leave the statue of Nathan Bedford Forrest in the park," said Robert Rubel of the Sons of Confederate Veterans.
http://www.wmcactionnews5.com/story/29529990/hundreds-rally-for-nathan-bedford-forrest-statue


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')b]City's fight to remove Nathan Bedford Forrest monument won't be easy

MEMPHIS, TN (WMC) -
Many Mid-Southerners wonder whether officials can legally remove the statue of a Confederate general from a City of Memphis park.

But, Forrest's family will fight it to the end.

The city will need to jump through many hoops to make the removal happen, from a state commission to the courts.

People showed up to Health Sciences Park, formerly named Nathan Bedford Forrest Park, to see the controversial effigy after glimpsing it on the news.

"I just think we've grown a lot and I'm not necessarily sure that removing this is going to do anything," Kelly Stevenson, who is visiting from Florida, said.

"Why would they take it away? The kids coming up today need to know," suggested Memphis resident Connie Askew.

Mayor A C Wharton said Forrest's legal will called for him and his wife to be buried at Elmwood Cemetery.

"Moving that statue does nothing to distort history. It's not as if a battle occurred in that park," Mayor Wharton explained.

But, many people are asking whether moving the statue off of public park property is legal.

The Heritage Protection Act prevents the relocation of military monuments like Forrest's statue.

"Thanks to a law that was passed a couple of years ago in Nashville in response to Memphis renaming some of these parks, now the city would have to pass a resolution, but they'd also have to go before the Tennessee Historical Commission and get permission to move the statue," said Steve Mulroy, who is a constitutional attorney and University of Memphis Law School Associate Dean.

So far, no one from Memphis asked for the commission to hear the issue.

Mulroy said moving the graves would take additional effort.

"They'd either need permission of the family, which I understand is not likely, or you need to go into Chancery Court and get a court order," he explained.

"Our attorney is navigating through that," Wharton responded. "This is going to be very orderly."

In the meantime, Memphis City Council is moving forward with the ordinance to remove the grave, which will need three readings. It could be approved by the end of August.
http://www.wmcactionnews5.com/story/29514094/citys-fight-to-remove-nathan-bedford-forrest-monument-grave-from-park-wont-be-easy
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Re: Let's dig up dead people because they are racist

Postby Sixstrings » Sun 12 Jul 2015, 19:26:16

Are you guys aware of Robert C. Byrd's KKK history?

The stuff is so racist I don't even want to post it (actual, REAL racism is very offensive to me):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Byrd#Ku_Klux_Klan

Some of Byrd's quotes.. from what I have read of nathan bedford forrest, he was not bigoted in the way that Robert Byrd was.

In fairness, Byrd changed later in life. But Forrest also changed, too -- he was the first white civil rights for black folks proponent, in Memphis. He gave a speech to the forerunner of the NAACP, at their invitation. He supported allowing black folks to join the Tennessee bar.

Forrest was briefly in the early KKK and then was disgusted by it and he disbanded it. Whereas Byrd was a RECRUITER for them.

So what about Byrd.. do all those bridges and highways need to be renamed, and the statues come down?

There's a bit of a double standard here..
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Re: Let's dig up dead people because they are racist

Postby Subjectivist » Sun 12 Jul 2015, 19:33:31

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lore', 'W')e have no problem digging up every old Indian that suits our curiosity.


That is not actually the case, at least in Michigan where I went to college. Turns out a corner of the campus is a pioneer cemetery with unidentified remains of both Potowatami and European bodies buried in it from the days of French settlement in the 1700's. They wanted to move all the bodies but the BIA objected because the descendants of the local tribes objected.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_ ... iation_Act
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Re: Let's dig up dead people because they are racist

Postby Lore » Sun 12 Jul 2015, 19:48:34

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Subjectivist', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lore', 'W')e have no problem digging up every old Indian that suits our curiosity.


That is not actually the case, at least in Michigan where I went to college. Turns out a corner of the campus is a pioneer cemetery with unidentified remains of both Potowatami and European bodies buried in it from the days of French settlement in the 1700's. They wanted to move all the bodies but the BIA objected because the descendants of the local tribes objected.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_ ... iation_Act


Actually, where I went to college in Michigan, my archeology professor was one of a team that dug up the remains of three Indan burial mounds along the Grand River. I think it all depends on when and who's sensibilities you offend.

Really though, in this case, I believe the main point here is the difference between honor and respect. I can respect my enemy, but I don't have to honor them.

As far as the dead are concerned, they only know that they are dead.
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Re: Let's dig up dead people because they are racist

Postby Oneaboveall » Sun 12 Jul 2015, 20:09:00

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')Over the weekend, Wallingford police were dispatched after someone called them to say there was a merchant selling Nazi and Confederate memorabilia at flea market, which some had found deeply offensive. The police chief says no one was arrested because no laws were broken; the items were being sold on private property...


http://wtnh.com/2015/07/10/wallingford- ... ea-market/

I find myself again in the uncomfortable position of agreeing with people I usually disagree with, but I don't think people get it:

You can't be for freedom of speech if you're only for speech that you like.

If one thing is banned, and you don't care because you don't like it, there's nothing to stop other things (that you like) from also being banned.
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Re: Let's dig up dead people because they are racist

Postby PrestonSturges » Sun 12 Jul 2015, 20:37:01

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', 'A')re you guys aware of Robert C. Byrd's KKK history?
.

... And you mention that how many times a month?
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Re: Let's dig up dead people because they are racist

Postby Sixstrings » Sun 12 Jul 2015, 20:41:39

This is concerning:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')img]http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/img/photos/2015/07/12/5c/7b/raw_jl_OCA-CONF._FLAG_RIDE.jpg[/img]

Ocala police investigating after shots fired near Confederate flag rally

OCALA, Fla. — Thousands of people rode in motorcycles and trucks to attend a rally and Pride Ride Sunday in Ocala to show support for the Confederate flag.

No one was hurt, but police said at least six shots were fired from an apartment complex near the Livestock Pavilion where the 17-mile ride started.

...

Residents of the predominately African-American neighborhood dispute that the gunfire came from their complex. They said they were being harassed by the demonstrators and the shots came from people participating in the Pride Ride.

“They come, they watch them run through on their motorcycles, running red lights and throwing beer bottles. The police didn’t stop them or nothing,” said Ocala resident Jason Carter.

...

“This is my flag. It just mean(s) this is the South flag. Nothing against anybody. That’s just what I was raised under. I carry it with me all the time,” said Pride Ride attendee Bryan Williams.

Last week, Stone spoke out about the flag's removal and told commissioners about his plan to organize a rally. “I have organized a peaceful motor ride, parade through Marion County,” Stone said. “This will get national attention.”

“You can't take this away. Next thing will be our gun right(s) we are not going to let that happen,” said Ocala resident Pat Stone.
http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/supporters-confederate-flag-gather-pride-ride-ocal/nmxd9/


edit: rant deleted.. shorter version: I feel like Democrats really rode this issue, all for political gain, and it all went way too far and it would have been better to have people like Jim Webb in government. And a media that was not like rabid schools of pirannha.

It honestly left MILLIONS of country folks BEWILDERED at what the heck is going on. Ebay ban, other corporate america.

So then people started doing the rebel flag rides.

So now it looks like maybe they got shot at.

It's all really bad stuff, it's such nonsense -- it's not even about civil rights or a real issue, they just want to ban a darn cloth flag, and dig up monuments. It's all so senseless and has just made divisions in the country.

Do you guys disagree with me? What do you think about the rebel flag rides, are these Big Trouble?

Not from the riders, I'm just sayin', this stuff ain't good -- I feel like media and government have stoked this thing and it's all so horrible, you've got people arguing with each other about FLAGS and it's like the whole darn thing is all a media creation.
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Re: Let's dig up dead people because they are racist

Postby Plantagenet » Sun 12 Jul 2015, 21:17:31

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lore', '[')they].....will make sure that old Confederates remain in their graves.


What exactly do you want to do with the Confederate bones and bodies if you get to dig them up? 8)
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Re: Let's dig up dead people because they are racist

Postby Cog » Sun 12 Jul 2015, 21:24:20

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PrestonSturges', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', 'A')re you guys aware of Robert C. Byrd's KKK history?
.

... And you mention that how many times a month?


He needs to mention as often as it takes for you to acknowledge that Bryd was a racist. Can you do that simple thing?

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Re: Let's dig up dead people because they are racist

Postby Sixstrings » Sun 12 Jul 2015, 21:41:01

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PrestonSturges', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', 'A')re you guys aware of Robert C. Byrd's KKK history?
.

... And you mention that how many times a month?


He needs to mention as often as it takes for you to acknowledge that Bryd was a racist. Can you do that simple thing?


I think that's the first time I ever mentioned Byrd in detail. I don't think I ever looked at his actual wiki before, or if I did I forgot about it. If you look at that link -- that's some shocking stuff he said, back then, really hardcore racist bigot stuff.

He changed, he was forgiven. And same with nathan bedford forrest.

I mean, read Byrd's actual words in that wiki. Then read about Forrest. Can someone post horrible racist things that nathan bedford forrest ever said? That are anything like what Robert Byrd said?

What's remarkable is that Byrd's racism was ONE HUNDRED YEARS after Forrest, if anything Byrd REALLY had no excuse. Byrd lived in the 20th century, not the early 19th.

My overall point was that BOTH men changed, and were forgiven, but for some reason Forrest and his wife have to suddenly be dug up.
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Re: Let's dig up dead people because they are racist

Postby Oneaboveall » Sun 12 Jul 2015, 21:50:25

Image
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How free are we today with the dominance of globalist capital and militarized security apparatus?
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