[PrestonSturges]

Also, I thought vegans have a strangely high risk of colon cancer.

[dohboi]

"Lack of meat has clearly damaged his thinking processes"

Read the article (or at least the quoted passage from it). There are lots of health benefits, but even more benefits for the earth.

(Of course, if you don't give a damn about anything but yourself, well, have fun living with that mentality.)

"I thought vegans have a strangely high risk of colon cancer."

Not according to this article.

(Man, does anyone ever read anything beyond just reacting to headlines??)

In any case, I got ya'll to think about something besides freakin' fracking for a while!

[dohboi]

Juice is not much different than soda--both essentially sugar water. Drink both in moderation or not at all.

[PrestonSturges]

Here's some studies on cancer rates - nothing very conclusive
http://www.veganhealth.org/articles/cancer#colorectal

And here's a vegan talking about how three of his vegan friends died young from colon cancer.
http://www.theveganrd.com/2012/05/when- ... ancer.html

[dohboi]

"three of his vegan friends died young from colon cancer. "

Hmmmm, this is what is known as anecdotal evidence which is worth approximately squat in assessing risk scientifically. (Do we need a brief course on basic critical thinking on this site, or something?)

In your first link, four of the six studies showed reduced risks of cancers for non-meat eaters. Mostly, though, the differences in outcome probably aren't statistically significant.

In any case, those were studies of vegetarians, not vegans. You do know that there's a difference, don't you?

[GoghGoner]

Jobs died because he experimented with a Fruitarian diet? No, please stop casually linking stuff.

I am currently on a vegan diet for Lent. I expect my blood pressure to decrease during this time as it has in past periods of fasting.

[dohboi]

GG, they don't have any case, so they have to just make sh!t up!

Again, for those with reading impairments, from the original article:

plant-based eaters are thinner and have lower cholesterol and blood-pressure levels, a reduced risk of coronary heart disease, Type 2 diabetes and lower cancer rates – especially colorectal cancer.

[Timo]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PrestonSturges', 'A')lso, I thought vegans have a strangely high risk of colon cancer.

[Timo]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('GoghGoner', 'J')obs died because he experimented with a Fruitarian diet? No, please stop casually linking stuff.

I am currently on a vegan diet for Lent. I expect my blood pressure to decrease during this time as it has in past periods of fasting.

[Timo]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dohboi', '&')quot;three of his vegan friends died young from colon cancer. "

Hmmmm, this is what is known as anecdotal evidence which is worth approximately squat in assessing risk scientifically. (Do we need a brief course on basic critical thinking on this site, or something?)

In your first link, four of the six studies showed reduced risks of cancers for non-meat eaters. Mostly, though, the differences in outcome probably aren't statistically significant.

In any case, those were studies of vegetarians, not vegans. You do know that there's a difference, don't you?

[Subjectivist]

Dohboi try this paper on for size,
http://www.nutritionjrnl.com

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'E')ffective management of type 2 diabetes includes moderation of carbohydrate intake [1]. One tool that can be used to estimate the effect of a food or meal on glucoregulation is the glycemic index. The glycemic index of a food item represents the cumulative effects of its consumption on the plasma glucose concentration. Postconsumption changes in plasma glucose concentration reflect the net results of several physiological processes, including CHO hydrolysis and absorption in the small intestine, pancreatic insulin secretion in response to postabsorptive increase in plasma glucose concentration, and tissue glucose uptake in response to insulin. These physiological processes are affected by the inherent chemical characteristics of the food item as well as interindividual variability in alimentary canal, gastrointestinal and pancreatic efficiencies.

Support for this project was received from Progressive Laboratories, Inc. , Irving, Texas, USA.

© 2015 Elsevier Inc. Published by Elsevier Inc. All rights reserved.

[Paulo1]

Nothing like a good steak and a freezer full of elk, chicken, and salmon. Plus, one devoted to vegetables. Everything in moderation.

I just remember when my ex wife decided to turn vegetarian...pretty much a vegan. My God, that was the end of family barbecues. It was pretty much the pits having to cook two of everything. One for her and one for everyone else. Spaghetti, and one vegetarian spaghetti. One lasgna...and one with fricking beans. Fun fun fun. Even her folks got sick of it. Do you know how much frozen veggie burgers cost? More than meat ones, let me assure you.

Her new 'partner' pretty much switched to stay with her, except when my son sneaks him pizza. I'm just telling you, it absolutely ruined family events, but I guess she felt special.

[dohboi]

"it absolutely ruined family events"

Ever consider that this was partly the family's fault for not being willing to go vegan once in a while at such events??

[Pops]

I realize the point of the thread is another guilt trip but I'm gonna ignore it and just say if you have the money eat grassfed.

But on the GI, like Pete said it is the fructose but it isn't the fruit so much as it is the High Fructose Corn Syrup made from cheap corn that has replaced cane sugar that is the problem. The deal with sugar is it reacts with proteins (biomolecules) and interferes with their normal functioning. That reaction also produces lots of nasty stuff that damages other structures. The result is heart disease, nerve damage, cancers, yadda yadda.

Starch is sorta bad because it converts quickly to glucose (the sugar in blood-sugar) because after all starch is the form plants store their energy. Table sugar - sucrose, is bad because it is a molecule made of glucose and fructose with a chemical bond but fructose is worst of all because it is much more reactive with proteins than glucose, maybe 10 times more.

HFCS has mostly replace cane sugar (sucrose) in food processing. And here is the thing, HFCS is also made from glucose and fructose like table sugar but it is just a blend, it doesn't have that chemical bond that causes sucrose to take a while to digest, the fructose goes straight to work tying up proteins.

So to ramble back to the point, (sorry this is turning long) the glycemic index was designed to give an indication of how fast a particular food gets in there and affects blood sugar. There are all sorts of factors in addition to just The Food, I became a type 1 diabetic a few years ago and I have experimented a little.

For example if I eat a small portion of al denté pasta (one oz, just a few noodles) along with some stirfry veg, just sizzled enough to warm up, and I take no quick acting insulin, my blood sugar will pop up to maybe 150mg/dl ("normal" is around 100) in the course of an hour.

But, If I put the leftovers in the fridge 24 hours and then nuke em before I eat the same portion, my sugar might go up to 200mg/dl or higher in a half hour.

The reason is the longer you cook something or even let it sit in the fridge breaking down the faster it digests and enters the blood. Ditto the more you process, refine, precook, prepackage and yeah, nuke it.

On the other end lets say I cracked a similar portion of (1oz) of wheat berries, maybe soaked them in warm water just until I could sorta chew them up. I'm betting they would not raise my blood sugar enough to measure. (I'd probably be nice and regular too but that is another thread)

I eat pretty low carb diet, nothing crazy, <50g/day probably (otherwise it is just too hard on the cook) but I eat virtually no baked goods, no high starch foods and mostly no sugar, a hershey's kiss here or there (if you aren't going to eat many carbs, what are going to have, bread or chocolate?)

But just adding any food that has lots of fiber (fibre is a carb but one that digests slowly), cooking just as little as possible and not at all as much as possible can bring down the overall GI of the whole meal.

Of course even if you don't have diabetes, the beta cells in your pancreas kick out a big old squirt of insulin when you pop a doughnut. The insulin tucks that sugar away where you can get to it later but probably there is too much insulin now, not many doughnut trees in The Garden, so then your blood sugar drops and the alpha cells in your pancreas squirts out some glucagon telling your liver to hurry, release some of that glucose you just stored ... and back and forth it goes.

[dohboi]

I would just like to say--no guilt trip intended.

Further more, if you choose to stick with red meat, I would concur with Pops on "eat grassfed," whether that's beef or venison or buffalo.

Otherwise...lot's of good tips there. Besides high fructose corn syrup, pretty much anything made with white flour is gonna be pretty much like a sugar IV straight into the veins. IIRC, white French bread was about the highest on the glycemic index.

Along those lines and getting back to the thread topic: You can eat 100% vegan and stay pretty darn low on the glycemic index by eating unprocessed whole (here meaning especially still in the grain--wheat berries, oat groats, rices...not flour or cracked or rolled...) grains and following Pop's advise and a few other pointers.

(BTW, you are always free to take any thread of mine anywhere you like, Pops--it always ends up somewhere pretty interesting. Glad to hear that you have adjusted, as it sounds, pretty well to your new regime.)

...

More on the cancer thing: "...there is convincing evidence that high consumption of red meat (beef, pork, and lamb) and processed meat (hot dogs, bacon, and deli meats) does increase colon cancer risk. (52)

It’s best to limit red meat consumption to no more than twice a week, and to avoid processed meats."
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionso ... conditions

(I'm betting that none of that meat was grass fed, though! )

(And I would say that "avoid processed meats" should kinda go without saying!)

From further along in the same study, in the section on obesity:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'P')eople who ate more nuts, a high-fat food that was traditionally taboo for dieters, gained less weight over the course of the study—about a half pound less every four years.

People who ate more vegetables, whole grains, and fruits also gained less weight.

In contrast, people who ate more red and processed meat over the course of the study gained more weight—about a pound extra every four years.