[PrestonSturges]

Well it's nice that Glenn encourages people to look things up for themselves but I've never heard anyone say "....so I looked it up for myself!" His pal Barton is a total fraud and scam artist, but there has been a cottage industry of people fictionalizing American history for over a century, for instance trying to Christianize Washington has been an industry all itself for 150 years.

And he got the story about the completion of the Washington monument all wrong.

My neighbor is taking a church class in American history, which is odd because I have a whole bookshelf of history books. I have a volume of the debate over the Constitution with the Federalist papers and many of the other stuff for and against the Constitution. I told my neighbor I don't need someone to "explain" them to me because they are not written in latin or even Shakespearean English, because the Founders wrote in perfectly modern English. And if I want to know what the different opinions were on paper money, rebellions, the courts, I turn to the index and it lists the pages of the half dozen different opinions on each topic (because the Founders were pretty much all over the map in their opinions.) So why I need someone to "explain" and cherry pick is beyond me, or why would I want someone to tell me they agreed on everything, when they never did.

I also read Thomas Paine last month. Of course, Jefferson said the Bible was a collection of fables used to justify "the most corrupt of religions," and was relentless in his criticism of Christianity and the threat of religion to the new country. Paine wrote that the Bible is mythology, but according to the Masons, it is Egyptian in origin and worshiping the Christian god is simply ripping off Egyptian sun worship (after the Rosetta stone was found and we could read hieroglyphics, this was largely confirmed a century later). But Paine went further, and basically declared the Bible was a tool of evil people, and generally did much more evil than good, and that organized religion was a curse on mankind. Paine also said that each adult should receive an annual income from the government equaling roughly $3000 in today's money.

[Sixstrings]

I ended up watching Fox News last night just because I was curious about Christine O'Donnell; Hannity is the only national journalist she'll speak with so it was watch his show or nothing.

Well anyhow, I kept the TV on and before I knew it I was watching Glenn Beck too. Wow, wow, wow, that's a strange show. He's right in some ways, but always for all the WRONG reasons. If anyone wanted to see a living, breathing definition of propaganda they can just watch this show.

He started going on about globalism, and I'm thinking yeah he's right about this, and then out of nowhere he starts twisting everything around to the point of actually blaming American unions for globalism! I'm telling you, that show is bizarro-world. Point after point he's sort of right and then my blood pressure goes through the roof when he blames all the wrong people.

Not ONCE did he blame American globalist capitalists for this global evening out of wages. It was all liberals' and socialists' fault, supposedly because they think everyone in the world deserves equality. Not once did Beck address the fact that it's globalist CAPITALISTS who seek ever cheaper labor in the first place.

No doubt about it, Beck is a masterful propagandist. People are drawn in because they hear a ring of truth, and once hooked in he twists everything around so that the real oppressors become the supposed answer.

[Ludi]

Personally I think Beck is either a person who experiences "symbolic association" (high-functioning manic depressive, maybe) - OR - he is a stupendous actor doing an impersonation of a loon.

Even real loons can be very convincing, especially since they really believe their lunacy. Loons are often very intelligent, so they are able to make their loon theories very convincing even to non-loons.

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'P')ersonally I think Beck is either a person who experiences "symbolic association" (high-functioning manic depressive, maybe) - OR - he is a stupendous actor doing an impersonation of a loon.

[Ludi]

Well, he's a really amazing actor then. Or - there is the possibility he has changed over time.....

[efarmer]

I can only imagine the Fox spins and the MSNBC retort when this new GOP document hits distribution.

The "Pledge to America," circulated to GOP lawmakers Wednesday, emphasizes job creation and spending control, as well as changing the way Congress does business. It steered clear of controversial issues such as Social Security and Medicare, big drivers of deficit spending.

It pairs some familiar Republican ideas – such as deep spending cuts, medical liability reform and stricter border enforcement – with an anti-government call to action that draws on tea party themes and echoes voters' disgruntlement with the economy and Obama's leadership.

"Regarding the policies of the current government, the governed do not consent," reads a preamble to the agenda. "An arrogant and out-of-touch government of self-appointed elites makes decisions, issues mandates, and enacts laws without accepting or requesting the input of the many."

Boy I hope they give a little mirror out with every copy of this thing.
Arrogant and out of touch is Washington's blood type for both the red arterial and the blue veinous
types that flow in Uncle Sam's circulatory system. And none of you are self appointed, I know it feels that way, but you really aren't. I saw clowns fight outside the circus tent one time, they hurled big shoes and buckets of confetti back and forth and squeezed the bulbs on big horns in each other's ears.
Yeah, it is sort of like that...

[Roy]

Here's the thing about Beck. He's no different than the Shamwow guy. A paid spokesman.

Want proof?

When Glenn had his show on CNN, he did a segment on the American health care system, based on his personal experience with having a minor surgical procedure. He called it "the worst health care system in the world".

Flash forward about 1 year, and he's working for Fox. He does segment after segment (during the run up to passing the new health care legislation) calling the American health care system the best in the world. Jon Stewart exposed this not long after Beck turned up at Fox news.

Fact of the matter is that all these pundits are merely paid spokesman.

Remember, he who pays the piper calls the tune.

You have to be pretty gullible IMO to believe anything coming out of the mouths of any of the pundits on any of the networks. They are in place to polarize the population, and as you point out Six, blame the wrong people, and speak lies with small nuggets of truth. They're all the same IMO, from Olberman to O'reilly. They thrive on wedge issues.

They get people to argue about social issues, while BOTH parties relentlessly support the policies that have bankrupted this country and that are destroying the middle class. Such as currency debasement (2% per year since 1913 on average), war for profit, globalism, free trade, and deficit spending. BOTH parties support these issues. Anyone daring to speak against the dominant paradigm is called names and marginalized.

plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose. The more things (hope and) change the more they stay the same.

2¢

[Tanada]

As a member of a powerful Union and having grown up in a family with many members in different Powerful Union I can tell you unequivocally that Union LEADERSHIP are bought and paid members of the Democrat Corporatist elite. They have not represented the best interest of the working class for DECADES, not that I want to abolish unions but look at who they support and what those people do in office. No really, I mean that. Look at their track record and tell me it isn't working to help the internationalist system. Unions, like governments, are best when they listen to their members and support the politicians their members believe are telling the truth and looking out for them. Every voter guide I have ever gotten from the union, and there are many over the last 20+ years, have always selected candidates who say what we want to hear at election time and who do whatever the corporatist demand the day after! The reason union membership has fallen like a rock in the USA is simple, when they support these candidates they ship our jobs out of the country and we cease to be members of their union. I never have been able to figure out why they do it, but trust me and look it up for yourself, they do.

[Pops]

There is no doubt people like Murdock have an agenda, OTOH Murdock's main agenda is making money and Fox does that:
Cable News: Fox News Most Profitable, Edging CNN & Headline News Combined, Far Ahead Of MSNBC

So while people not aligned with that view may cringe, people pay to watch these guys.

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')asn't there a preacher in the Great Depression who'd rant on the radio like Beck does? I've read about him somewhere, can't remember the name.

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', 'B')eck is an amalgum of Coughlin, McCarthy, Howard Beale (from Network), Elmer Gantry, and a little Nuremburg rally thrown in.

[PrestonSturges]

Beck is closest to the character of "Lonesome Rhodes" from the 1959 movie "A Face In The Crowd."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Face_in_ ... %28film%29

Andy Griffith does a superb job as a sociopathic alcoholic drifter who gets "discovered" in a Tennessee jail by a reporter who gets him an audition on a local country music program. Rhodes maniacal personality comes across as charismatic on TV and eventually he has a national show called the "Cracker Barrel" which is something between Glenn Beck and Hee-Haw, where he fronts for big business and the GOP. Rhodes claims 50,000,000 tv viewers, which must have been neraly every set in 1959 (Beck pulls 3,000,000)

Republican senators approach him about a cabinet level position because they see the USA moving towards a some event (a military coup?) where Rhodes can be an actual minister of propaganda. This is mentioned very very briefly, but it is an essential part of the plot. Rhodes also plans to create his "Fighters," who are clearly some sort of brownshirt squad. The whole thing unravels as Rhodes suffers a series of scandals.

[Plantagenet]

Why do you guys watch all this crap on TV?

If you want the news just watch the PBS Newhour

Then turn the TV off and go for a bike-ride.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', ']')

Forty million was a massive audience for the 30's. Glenn Beck is similarly popular -- people in the suburbs dedicate parties to him, he's on TV and radio, books, the web, on and on.

[efarmer]

Fox sells fear and they need a person who can cry on cue.

Good fear makes you cry, you need someone to cry during your fear commercial or else people fear that if they buy your product, they might get it home and find out it's a dud.

But they have ridden the fear sales pyramid marketing scheme about as far as the base will spread.
They have to sell something new for people who are driven by consequences to where the fear is
to be ignored and their reaction is driven by survival and real and present danger.

I am confident our salesmen will rise past having to cry on demand and deliver the goods.

They will need a new sponsor, Depends or Pampers would be appropriate.

He can still cry on demand to keep his following, but he is going to have to load his pants
for the new growth in the demographic. Pooping his pants will also prove he is not a flash in the pan and that he has a multifaceted talent.

I am still analyzing the trend to see if he will have to become a biter too.

If so, I hope he gets teamed with Hannity.

I think of Fox as a fear reservoir, when their people are in power in Washington, the fear shifts there and leaves them running on a quarter tank or so, but when their folks are out of power, Fox gets the full tank load of fear that drives their profits. Limbaugh and Beck are merely filling station attendants. The fear consumer, is largely driven by the amount of material goods they have to lose rather than the older fear consumer, who was scared for his life. To cater to the new fear consumer, you have to show threats to his material goods and play the fear for the life of the material goods for the next generation. It is a high grade of fear because we would rather die than be poor. This is why we make sure people who scare us about this topic get filthy rich.

[Ludi]

A key to the development of Glenn Beck?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83tnWFoj ... re=related

[zoidberg]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '
')Well anyhow, I kept the TV on and before I knew it I was watching Glenn Beck too. Wow, wow, wow, that's a strange show. He's right in some ways, but always for all the WRONG reasons. If anyone wanted to see a living, breathing definition of propaganda they can just watch this show.

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('zoidberg', '.').but being good at communicating his point of view doesnt necessarily mean he's lying, just means he's skilled.

[Pretorian]

Sixstrings, if you opened a business, would you be looking for the most expensive labor available? Or perhaps you would want to buy stock from a business like that? I somehow doubt Intel would be worth more than a penny if they employed Americans only.

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pretorian', 'S')ixstrings, if you opened a business, would you be looking for the most expensive labor available? Or perhaps you would want to buy stock from a business like that? I somehow doubt Intel would be worth more than a penny if they employed Americans only.