[TreebeardsUncle]

Actually, there have been studies done that showed that innovation was greatest around 1880 or so. Most of the big breakthroughs in physical science and engineering were made over the period of 1450 through 1950 or so. What has come since has been more incremental. Also, Americans do not have a lock on innovation.

American culture is anti-intellectual, anti-scientific, anti-emotional, isolationist, sensationalist, materialistic, and short-sided. Book-learning and abstract thougth is not respected. Most folks do not relate to technical things beyond a primitive phillistine grease-monkey approach. There is some innovation coming out of the better universities, the UC system, Cal Tech, MIT, Harvey Mudd, Carnegie Mellon, the University of Michigan, the University of Illionois and a variety of companies, particularly those in the electronic, bio-medical, and arms contracting industries. However, the population as a whole is passive, self-indulgent, and ignorant of such developments.
The economy is largely devoted to mortgages, arms contracting, and fossil fuel burning. Look around you. What America is mostly about is cars and credit. The party is not over yet. However, things will be different in 50 years? How. The American consumer will not have the relative luxury compared to those in east and south Asia that he now does. Driving will be less democratic. The idea that one is entitled to a single detached house in the suburbs or exurbs for no money down is untenable as well.

g

[Carlhole]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR', 'T')he problem, carhole, is that you are insisting on defining "TypeA is feature X" and then harranging TypeA for being X. I am a doomer. That does not mean that the future is certain.
It does mean that I think I have a notion about how its going to play out. That notion.... is bad. Now, Monte is of course locked in a degree of absolutism that makes it almost impossible to have a conversation with him about the subject, but that does not mean that ALL DOOMERS are clones of Monte.

[hironegro]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', 'S')o you don't believe in America? Doesn't anyone here believe in America?

[Carlhole]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('hironegro', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', 'S')o you don't believe in America? Doesn't anyone here believe in America?

[AgentR]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', 'T')hese articles are almost ALWAYS ridiculed or attacked in some way by the 60 - 70% Doomer crowd on this board. Graeme has been posting the same kinds of articles and people actually started to bitch and complain about him! They wonder why he is posting here, as if her were arguing that that world were flat or something!

[Carlhole]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR', 'I') understand that you like to insult and berate anyone who falls otuside of your strawman construct of doomer

[ProudFossil]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ProudFossil', '1')940 - the country was really broke and there was not credit anywhere in the world.
1942 - we were fighting two wars over both oceans with the loss and damage to millions of our soldiers.
1945 - the Communist party was strong and submitting candidates for elective office.
1942 - started the biggest push in science and technology in history.
1940 - remember there was a great depression, unemployment running at 20%, soup lines, etc. The only optimism was going to a movie.

[AgentR]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', 'T')here is nothing "strawman" about my characterization of what a "Doomer" is.

[ReverseEngineer]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', 'T')here is nothing "strawman" about my characterization of what a "Doomer" is. The name says it all. It's about the imminent collapse of civilization due to the end of cheap oil. It's about preparing for the unavoidable cataclysm which is just around the corner. It's about zombie hordes, getting ready to bug out and all that.
I've been criticized around here for being an "America hater" or "anti-American" or some shitt. But the absolute NO CONFIDENCE vote that the Doomers have given America's long history of scientific innovation and adaptation shows absolutely ZERO faith in the country's scientific or technological prowess.
I, at least, have more faith in the country than that.
If you say you fervently believe in America, what good is that testament if you think we're all doomed? If you believe we're doomed, the ideals or values of America aren't worth a tinker's damn.

[idiom]

Carlhole, go read Atlas Shrugged.

Even if somebody came up with a small portable Cold Fusion drive Congress would ban it.

[JJ]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ReverseEngineer', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', 'T')here is nothing "strawman" about my characterization of what a "Doomer" is. The name says it all. It's about the imminent collapse of civilization due to the end of cheap oil. It's about preparing for the unavoidable cataclysm which is just around the corner. It's about zombie hordes, getting ready to bug out and all that. I've been criticized around here for being an "America hater" -snip-.

[Carlhole]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ReverseEngineer', '.')..you cannot DENY the Doom around us anymore, though it may or may not be an end to all life on earth, who knows? It CERTAINLY is though an end to LAWKI.

[AgentR]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', 'H')ere's today's relevant article. I find them all the time: Peak Oil and Nuclear Power

[Carlhole]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', 'H')ere's today's relevant article. I find them all the time:Peak Oil and Nuclear Power

[AgentR]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', 'O')h great logic: 'We're not building them now so we never will so we're doomed'.

[Keith_McClary]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', 'I')f there is doom afoot it sure has a habit of slinking off into the distance continually. Can you prove that fusion energy is completely impossible? Scientists much more knowledgeable than you are building a very expensive ITER in Europe in order to accomplish that very feat. They certainly think that fusion energy is quite possible or they wouldn't be trying.

[EnergyUnlimited]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', 'T')hese articles are almost ALWAYS ridiculed or attacked in some way by the 60 - 70% Doomer crowd on this board. Graeme has been posting the same kinds of articles and people actually started to bitch and complain about him! They wonder why he is posting here, as if her were arguing that that world were flat or something! ...As if watching science and technology developments were somehow inimical to any peak oil discussion!

[EnergyUnlimited]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ProudFossil', 'I')f so then the opposite would be true now when we do not have great quantities of domestic oil (thank you Liberals and Enviromental Whackos). If that is true then Utopia is right around the corner as soon as we use up the last of the domestic oil.

[Carlhole]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergyUnlimited', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', 'T')hese articles are almost ALWAYS ridiculed or attacked in some way by the 60 - 70% Doomer crowd on this board. Graeme has been posting the same kinds of articles and people actually started to bitch and complain about him! They wonder why he is posting here, as if he were arguing that that world were flat or something! As if watching science and technology developments were somehow inimical to any peak oil discussion!

[EnergyUnlimited]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', 'S')o my message to you, EnergyUnlimited, is take your America-hating, no-confidence, uneducated ass back to the filthy country you came from because we don't need you here.