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Bailing out the auto industry and SUV owners

Discussions about the economic and financial ramifications of PEAK OIL

Re: Bailing out the auto industry and SUV owners

Unread postby joelcolorado » Sun 07 Sep 2008, 11:40:10

The PROBLEM will be as we use less oil, gas etc. with smaller cars, there will not be enough taxes generated for road improvements.

Denver had a water conservation program and ppl responded and in ten years cut water useage in half. OF COURSE the water dept went broke so....they doubled the water bills to cover that. So you use less, and pay the same amount. NEAT HUH??
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Re: Bailing out the auto industry and SUV owners

Unread postby MarkJ » Sun 07 Sep 2008, 12:52:16

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('joelcolorado', 'T')he PROBLEM will be as we use less oil, gas etc. with smaller cars, there will not be enough taxes generated for road improvements.

Denver had a water conservation program and ppl responded and in ten years cut water useage in half. OF COURSE the water dept went broke so....they doubled the water bills to cover that. So you use less, and pay the same amount. NEAT HUH??


Water bills increased substantially in some regions since water usage declined due to shrinking population, shrinking commercial/industrial use, vacant/abandoned homes/buildings low flow toilets, flow restrictors, fewer people filling bath tubs, dish sinks, utility sinks, pools and fewer people washing cars, watering lawns etc.

Of course real inflation, declining home values, (less propety tax revenue), zero or negative tax base growth doesn't help matters when the cities are struggling to pay off bonds and/or improve existing systems.

The thousands of Toto G-Max system low-flow toilets we've installed in one region have probably put a substantial dent in some city water system usage patterns, as well as all the leaks and sticking toilet valves we've fixed. All those high water content toilets (that often had to be flushed 2 or 3 times) really used to use a lot of extra water.
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Re: Bailing out the auto industry and SUV owners

Unread postby MrBill » Mon 08 Sep 2008, 03:29:48

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('joelcolorado', 'T')he PROBLEM will be as we use less oil, gas etc. with smaller cars, there will not be enough taxes generated for road improvements.

Denver had a water conservation program and ppl responded and in ten years cut water useage in half. OF COURSE the water dept went broke so....they doubled the water bills to cover that. So you use less, and pay the same amount. NEAT HUH??


Saving money and conserving scarce resources do not necessarily mean the same thing. It is nice when they do, but conserving scarce resources is the goal.
The organized state is a wonderful invention whereby everyone can live at someone else's expense.
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Re: Bailing out the auto industry and SUV owners

Unread postby joelcolorado » Mon 08 Sep 2008, 10:47:44

I agree with saving resources but with water it is laughable. As long as we continue to pour millions of gallons of water a day on golf courses for our PLEASURE, we do not have a shortage. In Las Vegas there are something like 50 golf courses requiring millions of gallons of water A DAY. I do know this as I used to do the testing for the State of Kansas. THere are at least 17,000 golf courses in the USA according to google and with each one using hundreds of thousands of water per day, its unbelievable what is going on. To tell ppl to put in low flush toilets is okay but stupid in light of the waste there. Add to that ball parks, parks, football and soccer fields, zoos and other public areas and you are talking serious water use. One single center pivot on a quarter section of land here in Kansas will use 93 million gallons of water a year. So with 30 millon acres irrigated in kansas that is 14,625,000,000,000 gallons of water a year used to produce crops that have to be subsidized to make them work for the farmer.

So we are not short of drinking water, but short on brains. ITs an allocation problem all over.

Public are irrigation and golf courses alone use enough water that if put into the city system would solve everyones water problems.
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