[Newfie]

This is the second most scary thing in my life, sitting around trying to guess by what event Mo Nature will bring down human population. And I am sure she will, the house of cards is too improbably high.

The first most scary? Being here when it happens.

I have found that these conversations have a certain sick catharsis for me. But at some point they add to my depression.

I'm trying to train myself to think in "deep time" as some sage here suggested. Mo Nature will heal herself from this scourge. Humanity will most likely survive, we are adaptable. I hear this "hopeful" message in various guises here often. "Humanity will be OK, we will survive." Yeah, the gene string will survive, but we personally will not.

It would have been interesting to be around during the extinction of the dinosaurs, just to see how it happened, provided you were not a dinosaur.

[Fredrik]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ANewHuman', 'B')ird Flu will kill in the millions, maybe in the early 100s of millions, but really, it's nothing.

[BlisteredWhippet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Kaj', 'T')he most efficient way of slowing growth is through the education of women in the third world. It's maybe not a total solution but I am amazed this isn't discussed more on this site.

[Ludi]

"They" sure are taking their own sweet time about it.

[bodigami]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', 'T')his is the second most scary thing in my life, sitting around trying to guess by what event Mo Nature will bring down human population. And I am sure she will, the house of cards is too improbably high.

The first most scary? Being here when it happens.

I have found that these conversations have a certain sick catharsis for me. But at some point they add to my depression.

I'm trying to train myself to think in "deep time" as some sage here suggested. Mo Nature will heal herself from this scourge. Humanity will most likely survive, we are adaptable. I hear this "hopeful" message in various guises here often. "Humanity will be OK, we will survive." Yeah, the gene string will survive, but we personally will not.

It would have been interesting to be around during the extinction of the dinosaurs, just to see how it happened, provided you were not a dinosaur.

[bodigami]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BlisteredWhippet', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Kaj', 'T')he most efficient way of slowing growth is through the education of women in the third world. It's maybe not a total solution but I am amazed this isn't discussed more on this site.

[Homesteader]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BlisteredWhippet', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Kaj', 'T')he most efficient way of slowing growth is through the education of women in the third world. It's maybe not a total solution but I am amazed this isn't discussed more on this site.

[BlisteredWhippet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('zensui', '
')you're underestimating girl's minds just because they live in the "third world" and propose government's bioterrorism on the same post? wow, I thought you were not that clueless.

[bodigami]

BlisteredWhippet, since it's a conspiracy theory do even you label all this ideas as bullshit? because bioterrorism will not evolve human mind. between such type of survivors and total extintion the later is prefered because such megalomaniacs are not worthy of life.

[BlisteredWhippet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('zensui', 'B')listeredWhippet, since it's a conspiracy theory do even you label all this ideas as bullshit? because bioterrorism will not evolve human mind. between such type of survivors and total extintion the later is prefered because such megalomaniacs are not worthy of life.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BlisteredWhippet', ' ')my own knowledge of biotech

[BlisteredWhippet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BlisteredWhippet', ' ')my own knowledge of biotech

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BlisteredWhippet', '
')
Jackass...

[bodigami]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BlisteredWhippet', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('zensui', 'B')listeredWhippet, since it's a conspiracy theory do even you label all this ideas as bullshit? because bioterrorism will not evolve human mind. between such type of survivors and total extintion the later is prefered because such megalomaniacs are not worthy of life.

[Kylon]

I rather doubt the "Elites" will do anything to incur population reduction.

Rather it is inaction that will lead to mass deaths.

Sustaining life, especially in an ailing biosphere is a relatively difficult task.

By not providing the means of survival to other societies, they will effectively induce the greatest degree of culling.

Since the U.S and other First World countries are going to most likely die last due to having greater wealth, the elites can maintain their status.

So long as there isn't mass famine in the United States, there won't be a revolution. And if there is a revolution, there's the Patriot Act I, II and all the other bills which make any form of resistance a terrorist activity.

So the "Elites" have secured their place. Now all they have to do is wait.

With a massive population reduction due to starvation, there will be sufficient demand destruction to ensure their way of life a while longer, while simultaneously using the crisis as a means of inducing the mass hysteria needed to generate the political power needed to further remove any vestiges of what civil rights we have left.

Ultimate goal: Retain power, and acquire more.

The Upper Class is doing this quite nicely I must say.

The real question isn't what are the "Elites" doing, it's what we should be doing in order to advance the interest of the middle, and lower classes.

I say vote Barack Obama. He may not be the best person who could possibly run this country, but he's the lesser of the three evils.

He doesn't seem to have the greatest degree of administrative ability, but he seems to be far less corrupt than the alternatives.

I'd take a benevolent moron for a king than a cruel genius mastermind anyday.

A benevolent moron at worst will be benign, maybe a few screw ups here and there, but relatively benign as other members of the government can pick up the slack. A cruel genius at worst will result a second holocaust(and this time you might be the Jews).

----------


BTW Blistered Whippet, having the cruelty to exterminate billions of people just because they inconvience your pocket book isn't intelligence, it's just cruelty, pure and simple evil. That wouldn't make them superior, in fact they would be subhuman.

Any idiot with money can collect a horrible disease, grow it, and then mass distribute it.

Furthermore, any person who did this would suffer from the possibility of A) retaliation, MAD would most certainly ensue, and B) the possibility that the disease could come back to kill you.

When these two problems are factored in, using bioweapons from the point of a truely evil person would be potentially sucidal, if not plain idiotic.

[Kylon]

Double Post, but going to use this to reply to Zensui.

I was just stating what Americans should do in this situation.

We tend to hold a disproportionate amount of influence, and I think it's pertinent that I argue for a path that will lead to the least possible misery for America, and the planet as a whole.

In response to Newfie,


The truth is I don't like any of the candidates available.

Barrack lacks both experience and specific policy ideas.

Mccain serves the same party that brought us the Patriot Act and wants to extend the policy of the United States policing the world, which undoubtedly will create more enemies, which in turn will create more fear, which in turn will provide more justification for eliminating even more of American civil rights.

Hillary day by day sounds more and more like George Bush. She seems competent, capable, and with a lot of good policy ideas, however she seems like she would protect, and promote the same system with a few new masters. I also don't like the idea of dynasties, Bush, Clinton, Clinton, Bush, Bush, Clinton, Clinton... To much power stays in to few hands for far too long.

Ultimately I see Barrack as potentially ineffective and incapable, Mccain supporting the same party with the same corruption, and Hillary supporting a different party with slightly different corruption.

Barring the corruption and possibility of a dynasty, I'd vote for Hillary, as she seems like she possesses the greatest hope for the future, if she used her powers to benefit the middle and lower class.

However, since those are major factors, and possibly the largest factors I'll vote for Obama.

I despise all three choices, but I have a vote, so I'll vote for the lesser of the three evils. Hopefully this will result in a slightly better outcome for the future of this country and the world.

I hope this better elaborates why I hold my position.

[bodigami]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Kylon', 'I') rather doubt the "Elites" will do anything to incur population reduction.

Rather it is inaction that will lead to mass deaths.

Sustaining life, especially in an ailing biosphere is a relatively difficult task.

By not providing the means of survival to other societies, they will effectively induce the greatest degree of culling.

Since the U.S and other First World countries are going to most likely die last due to having greater wealth, the elites can maintain their status.

So long as there isn't mass famine in the United States, there won't be a revolution. And if there is a revolution, there's the Patriot Act I, II and all the other bills which make any form of resistance a terrorist activity.

So the "Elites" have secured their place. Now all they have to do is wait.

With a massive population reduction due to starvation, there will be sufficient demand destruction to ensure their way of life a while longer, while simultaneously using the crisis as a means of inducing the mass hysteria needed to generate the political power needed to further remove any vestiges of what civil rights we have left.

Ultimate goal: Retain power, and acquire more.

The Upper Class is doing this quite nicely I must say.

The real question isn't what are the "Elites" doing, it's what we should be doing in order to advance the interest of the middle, and lower classes.

I say vote Barack Obama. He may not be the best person who could possibly run this country, but he's the lesser of the three evils.

He doesn't seem to have the greatest degree of administrative ability, but he seems to be far less corrupt than the alternatives.

I'd take a benevolent moron for a king than a cruel genius mastermind anyday.

A benevolent moron at worst will be benign, maybe a few screw ups here and there, but relatively benign as other members of the government can pick up the slack. A cruel genius at worst will result a second holocaust(and this time you might be the Jews).

----------


BTW Blistered Whippet, having the cruelty to exterminate billions of people just because they inconvience your pocket book isn't intelligence, it's just cruelty, pure and simple evil. That wouldn't make them superior, in fact they would be subhuman.

Any idiot with money can collect a horrible disease, grow it, and then mass distribute it.

Furthermore, any person who did this would suffer from the possibility of A) retaliation, MAD would most certainly ensue, and B) the possibility that the disease could come back to kill you.

When these two problems are factored in, using bioweapons from the point of a truely evil person would be potentially sucidal, if not plain idiotic.

[Newfie]

"BTW Blistered Whippet, having the cruelty to exterminate billions of people just because they inconvience your pocket book isn't intelligence, it's just cruelty, pure and simple evil. That wouldn't make them superior, in fact they would be subhuman.

Any idiot with money can collect a horrible disease, grow it, and then mass distribute it.

Furthermore, any person who did this would suffer from the possibility of A) retaliation, MAD would most certainly ensue, and B) the possibility that the disease could come back to kill you.

When these two problems are factored in, using bioweapons from the point of a truely evil person would be potentially suicidal, if not plain idiotic."

Kylon, I agree with much of what you wrote but with hold judgment on the Obama thing. That's a discussion for another day.

Relating to this later part of your post I think you miss the point. We are in a world where suicide is seen as an honorable act. And exerting your religious inclinations on others is seen as a just act. While it may take something more than an idiot to effect the kind of destruction you envision it is certainly within the capabilities of any number of extremist, religious or otherwise. It seems most likely to come from some Islamic group but it could as well come from some home-grown sect (think Waco or Guyana) or a lone malcontent (think Uni-Bomber) or even a environmental evangelist.

All it takes is for some relatively intelligent disaffected group with a will to change the earth to act.

My "uneasy thought" goes along these lines. :
We are doomed simply because the house of cards we call modern civilization is piled to improbably high to be sustainable. Something, intentional or not, will bring it down. As each day passes the pile gets higher and less stable.

We talk of the dot.com and housing bubble. Our grandchildren will talk of the population or urbanization or oil bubble.

[BlisteredWhippet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', '"')BTW Bli---blah

[Ferretlover]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BlisteredWhippet', 'T')he constraint is, how could a relatively small part of the population kill off relatively high numbers of the populace and not have anyone connect this outcome with the perpetrators.