[shortonsense]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Voice_du_More', '
')I admit that is a hard peak scenario, but I really do not see any evidence at all to suggest that the world is doing just fine since peak. The obvious conclusion is that the world economy is in the toilet and unless oil supplies suddenly start growing very quickly the whole thing is going to get flushed within 24 months.

[Voice_du_More]

I'm not sure which turkish bizarre you frequent brother but you should know that that funny smelling smoke is clouding your judgment.

[shortonsense]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Voice_du_More', 'I')'m not sure which turkish bizarre you frequent brother but you should know that that funny smelling smoke is clouding your judgment.

[hardtootell-2]

I read the Pimentel article. I did not study it in great detail but it did not look right to me. I have looked into producing my own biodiesel in some detail but I am by no means an expert. The part that looks askew to me is the Biodiesel. Who uses STEAM to extract vegetable oil when a mechanical press is all that is required? I got the impression that some of the inputs where double counted, like counting the cement for the extraction facility. It might have a 30 yr life span. There were assumptions on inputs that were not made clear, for example fertilizer inputs. Do all areas require these? If it is simply oil that is extracted,( that is carbon ,hydrogen and oxygen) the residue can be composted back into the field w/o any loss of soil nutrients.Yes it take some energy to spread it but not as much as making and transporting chemical fertilizers. It does not add up and is to me at least counter intuitive.

Here is another study that disputes Pimetel's EROI from University of New Hampshire:

http://www.unh.edu/p2/biodiesel/article_alge.html

and another from wiki

According to a study by Drs. Van Dyne and Raymer for the Tennessee Valley Authority, the average US farm consumes fuel at the rate of 82 litres per hectare (8.75 US gal/acre) of land to produce one crop. However, average crops of rapeseed produce oil at an average rate of 1,029 L/ha (110 US gal/acre), and high-yield rapeseed fields produce about 1,356 L/ha (145 US gal/acre). The ratio of input to output in these cases is roughly 1:12.5 and 1:16.5

[Quinny]

It would still be a significant diversion from prime purpose - producing food!

[Tanada]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '
')If this is what peak oil doom feels like, it's a yawner. This is not to mock peak oil, but to perhaps challenge people's assumptions that what we have now comprises peak oil doomTM. To me it's nothing but a gentle prelude.

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'A')nd it will be done now, because as we start down the completely new post-peak path such analysis will save us pointless expenditures of money and energy in places like the arctic...

[shortonsense]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', ' ')Why blow all the money on a gamble when you might do some fancy Excel work in the office and discover it take more energy to sink a well under the ice sheet than you get back to the mainland?

[shortonsense]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tanada', '
')So right there was a body blow to the economy, a lot of discretionary spending got shifted to energy spending. Add in the Housing bubble. Then add in the Banking bubble. Then hit the system with high unemployment further driving down discretionary spending. Next step, hit the system with high inflation due to Federal money printing.

[SeaGypsy]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('shortonsense', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', ' ')Why blow all the money on a gamble when you might do some fancy Excel work in the office and discover it take more energy to sink a well under the ice sheet than you get back to the mainland?

[shortonsense]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('shortonsense', '
')It is, however, a free country. Start up an oil company and drill wells on the basis of EROEI if you wish.

[mcgowanjm]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'p')starr wrote:
Why blow all the money on a gamble when you might do some fancy Excel work in the office and discover it take more energy to sink a well under the ice sheet than you get back to the mainland?

[mcgowanjm]

And I love that Money and Oil have been PROVED not
to be one and the same.

I missed that argument. Too bad. Because it's faulty and I can
prove it.

Every inflection point in the oil discovery/production Curve
has been marked Exactly by a Human Watershed Event.

The Human Population Growth Curve Exactly matches the Oil Discovery/Production Curve. Any Sixth Grader can see it.

More and More Religion is being used to argue v Science
here and elsewhere.

[rangerone314]

For Cornucopians to explain ONLY:

http://www.cfr.org/publication/8834/katrina_and_oil_prices.html
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'K')atrina and Oil Prices
Interviewer: Esther Pan
Interviewee: Richard Karp

September 7, 2005

Hurricane Katrina caused severe damage to U.S.refinery and production capacity in the Gulf of Mexico. Oil prices briefly spiked to above $70 per barrel before dropping after President Bush decided to release 30 million gallons from the country’s Strategic Petroleum Reserve (SPR).