[Pops]

Now, now.

[Newfie]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tanada', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', 'H')ow to make a zombie horde ( or hoard )

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB1 ... 1941621778


I'm surprised this hasn't been done sooner. There is a VERY limited supply of transformers on hand. Normal failure is a real problem. Lead times are horrendous. Manufacturing capacity very limited. Lots of specialization. A few dedicated souls could do great harm.

I don't want to talk about technical details, no point in being accused of giving ideas to bad guys, but this was a pretty unsophisticated attack, showing a lack of understanding or efficiency. It could be much worse.

So let's say the outage lasted 2 to 4 weeks in your geographical area. Rural, suburban, or urban. How would you cope?

I know I could.

[sparky]

.
The grid crashing is a very real prospect ,
however the most probable result would be some part staying up
it depend how the safeties would activate , the total demand and the inter regions flow of power

A serious crash in the North East US is quite possible ,
all the generating plants would have to shed load super fast , they would probably crash down
restarting them is a long process , in some case they need other plants to restart first to boost them
a serious crash would take some days to re-energize some sections and probably a couple of weeks
to get everything up and running
this suppose the safeties protected the High voltage switching gear , the lines and the transformers

the breakers switch are the most vulnerable ,
it is them which would do the main work of tripping on load
transformers are quite robust , it would take some sabotage to damage them

it is true it take a lot of time to make them , it's a very specialized field
at work we have trannie which is shorting inside , the oil analysis tend to indicate it will fail soon
the manufacturer told us the delivery time for a new one is four months and it's only a 2 mW 20.000 V
that's a baby

[Loki]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'P')retending there is a dichotomy when there is none is an excuse to do nothing it seems to me.

[Narz]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', 'H')ow do you make a "Zombie horde"? Have the ATMs stop working, the banks close and the government checks and direct deposits stop coming. How much cash do you have on hand?
Cities depend on food and water being delivered daily and that takes both transport fuel and money. Cut off the electricity , close a few bridges and close the banks and you have shortages and panic in three days or less. Instant Zombie Horde. The cops will be hungry too and will be some of the worst of the Zombies as they are armed have backup communications and the color of authority.
I think survival chances are much greater in the country especially for those that live there and know how to raise and process their own food and energy supplies. You can't chop wood in town or butcher a pig that isn't there.

[Narz]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'Y')ou're tilting at strawmen, LOL. There is a whole spectrum of people in this world and you are focusing on a tiny sliver in order to justify doing nothing - even though you obviously understand that things can and may well change.

[Narz]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', 'S')o let's say the outage lasted 2 to 4 weeks in your geographical area. Rural, suburban, or urban. How would you cope?

I know I could.

[Newfie]

Narz,

Remember, I live in Philly, just down the pike from you. We would likely be in the same blackout.

There are ways.

But, yes, most of my cliff dweller friends and neighbors have a similar attitude.

"In that case, I'll just die."

I can't bring myself to accept that. NFW.

Now dealing with the wife is a different matter. My Wife is fairly well on board yet she can't pry herself away from here practice. Perhaps my plans have worked against me here. We do have a reasonable get away plan, which allows her to live in center city. Just no winning sometimes.

[tomnew481]

Self-sufficiency is possible but not all can live to it. We are use to have technologies such as electricity, gadgets, automobile, computers, internet etc as part of our daily lives. Taking out of these and back to basic might get more difficult particularly if we are unwilling.

[Narz]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', 'N')arz,

Remember, I live in Philly, just down the pike from you. We would likely be in the same blackout.

There are ways.

But, yes, most of my cliff dweller friends and neighbors have a similar attitude.

"In that case, I'll just die."

I can't bring myself to accept that. NFW.

Now dealing with the wife is a different matter. My Wife is fairly well on board yet she can't pry herself away from here practice. Perhaps my plans have worked against me here. We do have a reasonable get away plan, which allows her to live in center city. Just no winning sometimes.

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Narz', 'I')t doesn't garner you many allies (except among the choir perhaps) to say that anyone who's not doing things your way is "doing nothing".

[Newfie]

Right on Pops, live your life, it's the only one you have.

Narz, my wife is a psychoanalyst. No big bucks there, but she likes it.

But your reply makes me think there are two camps here; one being sustainable living, the other being reasonably prepared. Even if you can't live sustainably ( pretty hard actually) there is no reason you can't think about your biggest threats and do some prepping. Get a pressure cooker and save some money by canning some cheap cuts of beef. Make it a hobby.

[vtsnowedin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Narz', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', 'H')ow do you make a "Zombie horde"? Have the ATMs stop working, the banks close and the government checks and direct deposits stop coming. How much cash do you have on hand?
Cities depend on food and water being delivered daily and that takes both transport fuel and money. Cut off the electricity , close a few bridges and close the banks and you have shortages and panic in three days or less. Instant Zombie Horde. The cops will be hungry too and will be some of the worst of the Zombies as they are armed have backup communications and the color of authority.
I think survival chances are much greater in the country especially for those that live there and know how to raise and process their own food and energy supplies. You can't chop wood in town or butcher a pig that isn't there.

[Newfie]

The bridges and tunnels are pretty well " closed" most days just from normal traffic. As are many major highways.

You would simply have a few cars break down or run out of gas, then they are closed.

But don't you remember the times when power went off in NYC? Roads shut down too. Grid lock without traffic lights. Can't pump gas too.

I didn't think it needed to be restated but city living without power is not possible after about three days. It quickly deteriorates to survival situations.

Katerina ans Sandy were largely regionalized events where the vast majority of the nation could assist, and the situations still remainder poor for a long time.

If there is a larger event, or a coordinated event (power attack in winter) things could be much worse.

[vtsnowedin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', 'T')he bridges and tunnels are pretty well " closed" most days just from normal traffic. As are many major highways.

You would simply have a few cars break down or run out of gas, then they are closed.

But don't you remember the times when power went off in NYC? Roads shut down too. Grid lock without traffic lights. Can't pump gas too.

I didn't think it needed to be restated but city living without power is not possible after about three days. It quickly deteriorates to survival situations.

Katerina ans Sandy were largely regionalized events where the vast majority of the nation could assist, and the situations still remainder poor for a long time.

If there is a larger event, or a coordinated event (power attack in winter) things could be much worse.

[Narz]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'S')ee? Here is you doing exactly what you are accusing me of doing: passing judgement on what someone felt the need to do. You have no idea how he came across to his family, whether he regrets the purchase or ought more.

[vtsnowedin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'D')id someone actually suggest that total self-sufficiency is possible? It ain't not nearly. We don't have local industry anymore. We don't have local arable land. We don't even have local resources anymore. (They were stripped off the planet 140 years ago. All we have left is the increasingly remote, deep, dispersed minerals. Like oil. )

The only way self-sufficiency will be possible is via scavenging. There is plenty of high-quality ores left in the form of used, junked, corroding industrial detritus. It'll pay to remember the 3R's

[Narz]

Well game is alot less plentiful & there a whole lot more of the most dangerous game to contend with so it's a trade off.