[cube]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ColossalContrarian', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MrBill', 'I') vote for the American people who have lived beyond their means for over three decades, and consistantly elected politicians that also spent more than they raised in taxes.

[mefistofeles]

I suppose I agree with the majority: you want to find someone guilty throw a rock in the air.

However I do think that some of these characters should be given "honorable mention" for being particularly opportunistic or distasteful.

In my opinion Buffet's purchase Goldman Sachs shares and Gross' on air pandering are two examples of blatant opportunism. Gross pleading for the bailout on CNBC, while CNBC fails to mention the large mortgage backed securities position of his own company Pimco.

Buffet, for purchasing Goldman shares in expectations of a "kick" after the bailout.

I can't say that I would have behaved any differently but somehow this behaviour strikes me as distasteful, vulgar ,especially Bill Gross' constant pandering on CNBC. I think any used car salesman would be moved to tears by Mr. Gross' blatant appeals to fear and greed.

[smallpoxgirl]

I said Nancy Pelosi, but really the whole Congress and Christopher Cox deserve blame for not acting to stop these derivative instruments.

I'm not sure it does any good to blame Wall Street. A lot of the stuff they did was unethical, but you have to expect them to push the boundaries looking to make money. It's up to Congress and the SEC to regulate and make sure the rules are such that the citizens don't suffer.

[threadbear]

The government, self centered financiers and the media.

[ColossalContrarian]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('cube', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ColossalContrarian', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MrBill', 'I') vote for the American people who have lived beyond their means for over three decades, and consistantly elected politicians that also spent more than they raised in taxes.

[MrBill]

Hey Rockman, I would agree, sexually exploiting a mentally retarded person is not ethical, and it is not that person's fault with diminished intellectual intelligence. Fair enough. But (and there is always a but), where does the buck stop?

The People fought for No Taxation Without Representation. You live in a representative democracy. Ultimately the voters in a democracy get what they deserve. We are not talking about one bad President. We are talking about several generations living beyond their means, while empowering their politicians to do so as well on their behalf. It is a real cop-out to say after the fact that, gee, I benefited - directly or indirectly - from faster economic growth and free government services and handouts - directly or indirectly - but I didn't vote for them. That is a democracy. Fifty percent plus one. Whether it becomes a tyranny by the majority or the majority ruled by an elite is up to the electorate to collectively decide.

Social democracies in other parts of the world have in general some problems of their own, but can you really say that Skandinavia, in general, is grossly misgoverned by a small elite for their own benefit just because like the USA they also have party politics or elected officials that might also have their own human foibles or conflicts of interest? They may have their own social and economic problems, but in general they address them and fix them before they reach the size and scale of those faced currently by the USA. Granted the USA is much larger. But then I would say it had and has the resources to live within its means, but living on borrowed time and borrowed money was simply easier.

That may well have been beyond the comprehension of the electorate, but ignorance of the law is not a defence. I would ask how it is that America manages to send so many students to primary school and then on to state colleges and universities, but cannot manage to impart on those students any sort of civic responsibility that would help them choose a democratically elected government in an informed manner? Another sad cop-out by the apologists. They were certainly smart enough to take out home equity loans and how to deduct interest expenses from their income taxes.

If they are not intelligent enough then by default, of course, the country is going to be run by some sort of intellectual elite. How could it be otherwise? If I join a club I might someday be president of that club. If I join an organization I might someday be the head of that organization. Mr. Gorbachev one day became the First Secretary of the Communist Party and head of the USSR because as a youth he joined the communist party. He changed the direction of the USSR as an insider not as an outsider.

Joiners become leaders. It always makes me laugh when, for example, journalists or others link individuals to their schools, their families, their employers, and then if they happen to work in the government, or for a government organization, they imply an automatic conflict of interest that outweighs any public good. So if I have the experience to some day become Governor of the Bank of Canada (after I brush up on my French naturally) then the journalists can imply that I have no judgment because I used to work for an investment bank? Brilliant. So someone either has no private sector experience because they have never worked in the private sector. Career politicians come to mind. Or they are automatically tainted by their private sector experience when they either run for public office or are appointed to a government position based on their experience. Then the public has a right to know everything about them or their families that they have ever done under our right to know. Great. No wonder most businessmen have zero interest to get involved in politics.

So here's the deal. If the US electorate are really, really upset about this crisis and how it was handled then the first step is to vote against every incumbant running for office at a local, municipal, state and federal level. Throw them all out regardless of their political affiliation. Then start from scratch. Every four years vote the incumbants out until you finally get the elected government that you think serves you the best. Either that or disinfranschise the majority of the voters that are not intellectually capable of choosing a government. Good luck with that. Everything else is a cop-out.

For my part I blame poor supervision by an overlapping patchwork of regulators that left gaps in coverage of financial institutions - as elsewhere in the world naturally as this is a global problem - as well as the bureaucracy, incompetence and corruption of all governments. Only a zero tolerance policy for corruption, an informed electorate and a vigilent, unbiased media can root out that corruption and bring public attention to bureaucracy and incompetence. Its a tall order, but my standards are high.

[cube]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ColossalContrarian', '.')..
I would really like to know how one can point the finger at the American people for the $55 trillion dollar derivative implosion that is going to send this country (and the world) into a deflationary meltdown.

[phaster]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mefistofeles', 'W')ho has been the key "Villain of Wall Street" for this financial crisis? Or better yet what opportunitistic character seeks to benefit from this bailout at the expense of the American people?

[burtonridr]

I copied this from another forum, it is absolutely amazing!$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') found this on another web site http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?PH ... e43b4bca72 7f&topic=20950.0
If its true everyone needs to hear this. We think we know what happened on Wall Street? We are so wrong! You absolutely MUST listen to this interview. Yes it will take some of your time, which as the interview will point out is all your going to have left if and it's a BIG IF something isn't done and soon!

The following information was found on a site called Total_Truth_Sciences. I can not vouch for the commentary on this particular page but I can for the interview with Bud Burrell who, has extensive experience working with major brokerage firms on the trading desk and arbitrage desk with almost 30 years experience and who is an Industry authority, expert, and Wall Street veteran.

What is discussed will boggle your mind, I still can' take it in. So turn off the TV, and the cell phone, put out the cat, get a glass of wine or a beer, or stronger ( your going to need a stiff one) tell the kids to go to their rooms and sit back and listen:

The Greatest Crime in History This interview by the way was given in July of this year Pick one- ( most of you will need Windows Media)
Real Player:
http://www.netcastdaily.com/broadcas...008-0712-2.ram
WinAmp:
http://www.netcastdaily.com/broadcas...008-0712-2.m3u
Windows Media:
http://www.netcastdaily.com/broadcas...008-0712-2.asx
Mp3:
http://www.netcastdaily.com/broadcas...008-0712-2.mp3
http://www.financialsense.com/Experts/2008/Burrell.html

[madpaddler]

my god.... we are amongst more criminals than I could have ever imagined. What can be done, and by whom?

[ColossalContrarian]

CBS - A Look At Wall Street's Shadow Market

[phaster]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ColossalContrarian', '[')url=http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/10/05/60minutes/main4502454.shtml]CBS - A Look At Wall Street's Shadow Market[/url]

_________________
got cash?

[TheDude]

Link

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'N')EW YORK—Wall Street investors experienced a sudden surge in optimism Tuesday when, after six tumultuous weeks that saw record drops in the Dow Jones industrial average, a $1 bill was spotted on the floor of the New York Stock Exchange.

The dollar bill was discovered in the northwest corner of the trading floor at approximately 12:05 p.m., and its condition was reported as "crinkled, but real." Word of the tangible denomination of U.S. currency spread quickly across the NYSE, sending traders into a frenzied rush of shouting, arm-flailing, hooting, hollering, and, according to eyewitnesses, at least one dog pile.

"With credit frozen and the commercial paper market poised on the brink of collapse, this is the most promising development I've seen on Wall Street in months," said floor trader Tim Formato, one of hundreds who gathered around the $1 bill and excitedly called their clients to inform them that they were looking at actual U.S. tender. "I think I touched it."

According to witnesses, the trading floor was soon abuzz with energy, as traders pointed at the dollar and repeatedly shouted "Look!" and "Money!" A proposal to divide the $1 note into 1,300 equal pieces and distribute them amongst investors was considered, but ultimately rejected. Early reports estimate the dollar may have passed through as many as 65 hands before disappearing in the late afternoon.

[drgoodword]

A serious crisis always brings out the best in The Onion.

[Cid_Yama]

The Wall Street Journal published a front-page article Friday reporting that the nine biggest US banks, which have received a combined $125 billion in taxpayer funds as part of the $700 billion bailout authored by Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson and passed by the Democratic Congress, owed their executives more than $40 billion for recent years’ compensation and pensions as of the end of 2007. This means that nearly a third of the public funds given to these banks will ultimately be used to increase the private fortunes of a handful of multimillionaire Wall Street executives.

This revelation, the result of an analysis of the banks’ corporate reports by the American financial elite’s own chief organ, provides a stark exposure of the social interests that are being served by the government bailout. More generally, it provides an instructive insight into class relations in America. It has already been widely reported that the banks are refusing to use their government windfalls to resume lending to other banks, businesses and consumers—the ostensible purpose of the cash injections—and are, instead, hoarding the money for the purpose of acquiring smaller and weaker banks.

The so-called economic rescue plan is, in fact, a plan to effect a rapid consolidation of the US banking system, resulting in the domination of the economy by a few mega-banks, which will be free to set interest rates and lending standards as they see fit. Far from opposing this development, Treasury Secretary Paulson and the Federal Reserve Board are encouraging it. They deliberately designed the bailout to place no restrictions on how the banks use their taxpayer money and then enacted changes in the tax code to give banks acquiring other banks a huge tax break.

As the Journal explains, the minimal restrictions on future executive compensation stipulated in the bailout bill do not affect deferred payments to executives accumulated over previous years. Since such deferred payment accounts are commonplace in the banking industry and are the preferred means by which top executives build up nest eggs in the hundreds of millions of dollars, those who are primarily responsible for the financial disaster and, in many cases, the ruin of their own companies, will emerge from the crisis richer than ever.
link

[Revi]

I think it represents the biggest looting ever. They have run out of ways to loot the rest of the economy, so they are moving on to looting future generations.

This is the plan. Like Enron. Loot as much as possible and hand the wrecked country off to Obama.

[Novus]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Revi', 'I') think it represents the biggest looting ever. They have run out of ways to loot the rest of the economy, so they are moving on to looting future generations.

This is the plan. Like Enron. Loot as much as possible and hand the wrecked country off to Obama.

[seldom_seen]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Revi', 'T')his is the plan. Like Enron. Loot as much as possible and hand the wrecked country off to Obama.

[SpringCreekFarm]

This is how a capitalist democracy works, it seems.

Those CEOs make that kind of money because they can.

You have to pay that money because the laws in place allow them the legal right to take it. Screw ethics and morals.

You voted the people in who voted for the bailout. The system works and it sucks all at the same time.

I read a quote here a while back that said it all. Sorry I don't know who wrote it.

"Wall Street would prefer to capitalize profit and socialize risk"