[odegaard]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', '.')..
No real surprise he's worried about Mutant Zombie Socialists.
...

[Bytesmiths]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('odegaard', 'S')o long as the American Dream is alive, there will be no Mutant Zombie Socialists.

[Pops]

I thought this was interesting anout the "American Dream":

"the term was not put into print until 1931, when middle-brow historian James Truslow Adams coined and used it throughout the pages of a book titled _The Epic of America_. ... The American Dream is to be understood as an ethical doctrine that is symptomatic of a crisis in national identity during the thirties. The newly invented dream calls out for a supplement to the outmoded narrative of individual uplift, which had lost its moral capacity to guide the nation during the Depression."
http://www.csustan.edu/english/reuben/p ... .html#1999

The ideal one should only be limited by their ability and drive and not at all by their social class, family situation, etc was a great thing for the first 300 years when in order to make money you just sallied forth and trapped a beaver, shot a buffalo, cut down a forest, plowed up some prairie, dug up some gold or otherwise exploited an ownerless, virgin resource base. So I'm going to say the American Ethic of "Get it while the gettin's good" isn't American at all, it predates Washington, it predates Pizzaro and the first people who got here, heck it goes all the way back to the Garden and that first free apple!


By the 30's, most of the land had been staked out. It turned out it did matter who your family was, where you had grown up, what school you went to, etc.

That's when it became a dream.

[Bas]

great post Pops. Still America is more laissez faire like than most other countries because of the history of being able to just take what's there...

For the anti-socialized medicine-crowd I have a question (this question was asked to me in a forum game on another board today)

if you could only have one of two things, what would you rather have:

good health
or
plenty of money

[Quinny]

He probably meant except you!

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PrestonSturges', 'S')ince nobody on this thread has the faintest idea what they're talking about

[odegaard]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Bas', 'F')or the anti-socialized medicine-crowd I have a question (this question was asked to me in a forum game on another board today)

if you could only have one of two things, what would you rather have:

good health
or
plenty of money

[Bas]

European styled socialism for life!--it's coming your way.

[JPL]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Bas', 'i')t's coming your way.

[Bas]

[Micki]

Anyone heard about Walter Burien?

He has for well over 10 years been sounding alarm that the government for the last several decades has been engaged in stealth socialism by using revenue to buy assets and separating revenue for budgetary basis from total revenue. i.e. for decaded the states etc justified taxation by breaking even runnng deficits when in fact they had surplus. Surplus income has gone to further purchases of assets or other "black" expenses.
He is backing up his claims with figures from amongst other public financial reports so he's hopefully not a total crackpot.
Anyone else come across this earlier?

I have also for a long while wondered where the shares etc go that the PPT buys. Well this seems to give some possible explanation. Heck if the government is a major share holder, of course they will use tax money to prop up share prices.

I came across Walter via this clip here;
http://xbox360.magnify.net/video/The-Bi ... wn-about-t

Haven't check if it is the same that is available here;
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/63257

This seems to be his website.
Anyone heard about Walter Burien?
He has for well over 10 years been sounding alarm that the government for the last several decades has been engaged in stealth socialism by using revenue to buy assets and separating revenue for budgetary basis from total revenue. i.e. for decaded the states etc justified taxation by breaking even runnng deficits when in fact they had surplus. Surplus income has gone to further purchases of assets or other black expenses.
He is backing up his claims with figures so he's probably not a total crackpot.

I have also for a long while wondered where the shares etc go that the PPT buys. Well this seems to give some possible explanation. Heck if the government is a major share holder, of course they will use tax money to prop up share prices.

I came across Walter via this clip here;
http://xbox360.magnify.net/video/The-Bi ... wn-about-t

Haven't check if it is the same that is available here;
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/63257

This seems to be his website.
http://cafr1.com/
It is a bit messy and contains a lot of other stuff besides the above, so I think the video clip is the place to start.

[Schmuto]

I suggest you rewrite the 1st paragraph.

[americandream]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Micki', 'A')nyone heard about Walter Burien?

He has for well over 10 years been sounding alarm that the government for the last several decades has been engaged in stealth socialism by using revenue to buy assets and separating revenue for budgetary basis from total revenue. i.e. for decaded the states etc justified taxation by breaking even runnng deficits when in fact they had surplus. Surplus income has gone to further purchases of assets or other "black" expenses.
He is backing up his claims with figures from amongst other public financial reports so he's hopefully not a total crackpot.
Anyone else come across this earlier?

I have also for a long while wondered where the shares etc go that the PPT buys. Well this seems to give some possible explanation. Heck if the government is a major share holder, of course they will use tax money to prop up share prices.

I came across Walter via this clip here;
http://xbox360.magnify.net/video/The-Bi ... wn-about-t

Haven't check if it is the same that is available here;
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/63257

This seems to be his website.
Anyone heard about Walter Burien?
He has for well over 10 years been sounding alarm that the government for the last several decades has been engaged in stealth socialism by using revenue to buy assets and separating revenue for budgetary basis from total revenue. i.e. for decaded the states etc justified taxation by breaking even runnng deficits when in fact they had surplus. Surplus income has gone to further purchases of assets or other black expenses.
He is backing up his claims with figures so he's probably not a total crackpot.

I have also for a long while wondered where the shares etc go that the PPT buys. Well this seems to give some possible explanation. Heck if the government is a major share holder, of course they will use tax money to prop up share prices.

I came across Walter via this clip here;
http://xbox360.magnify.net/video/The-Bi ... wn-about-t

Haven't check if it is the same that is available here;
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/63257

This seems to be his website.
http://cafr1.com/
It is a bit messy and contains a lot of other stuff besides the above, so I think the video clip is the place to start.

[Micki]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('americandream', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Micki', 'A')nyone heard about Walter Burien?

He has for well over 10 years been sounding alarm that the government for the last several decades has been engaged in stealth socialism by using revenue to buy assets and separating revenue for budgetary basis from total revenue. i.e. for decaded the states etc justified taxation by breaking even runnng deficits when in fact they had surplus. Surplus income has gone to further purchases of assets or other "black" expenses.
He is backing up his claims with figures from amongst other public financial reports so he's hopefully not a total crackpot.
Anyone else come across this earlier?

I have also for a long while wondered where the shares etc go that the PPT buys. Well this seems to give some possible explanation. Heck if the government is a major share holder, of course they will use tax money to prop up share prices.

I came across Walter via this clip here;
http://xbox360.magnify.net/video/The-Bi ... wn-about-t

Haven't check if it is the same that is available here;
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/63257

This seems to be his website.
Anyone heard about Walter Burien?
He has for well over 10 years been sounding alarm that the government for the last several decades has been engaged in stealth socialism by using revenue to buy assets and separating revenue for budgetary basis from total revenue. i.e. for decaded the states etc justified taxation by breaking even runnng deficits when in fact they had surplus. Surplus income has gone to further purchases of assets or other black expenses.
He is backing up his claims with figures so he's probably not a total crackpot.

I have also for a long while wondered where the shares etc go that the PPT buys. Well this seems to give some possible explanation. Heck if the government is a major share holder, of course they will use tax money to prop up share prices.

I came across Walter via this clip here;
http://xbox360.magnify.net/video/The-Bi ... wn-about-t

Haven't check if it is the same that is available here;
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/63257

This seems to be his website.
http://cafr1.com/
It is a bit messy and contains a lot of other stuff besides the above, so I think the video clip is the place to start.

[bodigami]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('eastbay', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Schmuto', '
')Don't confuse "socialism" with "doing good."

Oh no. Socialism is about who controls the means of production. That's it.

[bodigami]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Bas', 'w')hat better measure than healthcare to measure countries by?

[americandream]

The bankers and other fats cats financed the very notion of destroying them in the ideas of Marxian full social equity is essentially what you are saying.

To translate that into simple English, someone infinitely wealthier and comfortable than you are financed ideas that extol their destruction by way of revolution. How's that for absurdity.

On the other hand, if you were to suggest that the wealthy mitigated the appeal of full blown social and economic equity by adopting keynesian capitalism under the bogus red banners of Labor and other "social democracies" worldwide in order to blunt the threat posed by Marxist Communism and thereby nullify it, I would inclined to agree.

However, the latter is NOT socialism in much the same way that the christ figure in the bible is not even remotely anything like the popstar like figures strutting church podiums these days.

Marxism is the ideological tool whereby those workers (and I include the mortgaged middle class) in an advanced global capitalist society may make that transition from the debt ridden corpse they are confronted with to a system that is sustainable.

No where does Marx advocate sucking up to the bosses and I think that your evident lack of basic political acumen is testimony to the success of bourgeoisie propaganda.

China and the USSR are failed revolutionary societies precisely for the reasons Marx stated labour socialism would not work in peasant societies. They have yet to exhaust the surplus inherent in their recently capitalised socio-economic systems (which incidentally accounts for the Western love affair with the emerging bourgeoisie in China.)

There will be no fundamental shift in the power structures globally until all surplus is exhausted by the onset of a globe wide consumer credit crisis. That is still some decades away. In the meantime, the elite will utilise keynesian mechanisms to ameliorate the worst effects of capital for as long as a surplus is available and that is NOT socialism.

[Micki]

I am not talking about ideologies. I am talking about past and current examples.
Socialsim, Fascism, National Socialism and Plutocrasism (how the heck to you say the last?) is about concentration of power. Anarchy and the ideas of a Republic is about power to the individual.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Micki', 'I') am not talking about ideologies. I am talking about past and current examples.
Socialsim, Fascism, National Socialism and Plutocrasism (how the heck to you say the last?) is about concentration of power. Anarchy and the ideas of a Republic is about power to the individual.

[americandream]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Micki', 'I') am not talking about ideologies. I am talking about past and current examples.
Socialsim, Fascism, National Socialism and Plutocrasism (how the heck to you say the last?) is about concentration of power. Anarchy and the ideas of a Republic is about power to the individual.

[Micki]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Micki', 'I') am not talking about ideologies. I am talking about past and current examples.
Socialsim, Fascism, National Socialism and Plutocrasism (how the heck to you say the last?) is about concentration of power. Anarchy and the ideas of a Republic is about power to the individual.