[I_Like_Plants]

And my friends don't have any fucking idea.

A notable piece of wisdom from one of them, I'm not sure if I was able to keep the astonishment off of my face when I heard this one, that "If we conserve our energy and resources, we'll have energy and resources saved up, that we can use for big projects" and then I think he went on to babble about abiotic oil.....

[NEOPO]

it is good to not be alone indefinately with one's own thoughts.
thank you plants.

Did you vote no PMS?
If so then thank you also as I sometimes wonder about you and that clears at least one thing up, for now!

Am I alone with the war protest feelings or am I simply unable to perceive the method of other peoples war protest madness?
Like this thread - if PMS is sincere then it is a form of protest.

I still prefer to drop the robert zimmerman or rage against the machine bombs and then run away like a kid who just lit an M80
Bob Dylan's MASTERS of WAR
<scurries and takes cover>

[PenultimateManStanding]

You folks who vote no, would you do that if you knew that your loved ones would die? This is what I'm trying to get at. It's just hypothetical. NEO, if your children would meet a horrible death of bloated stomachs and starvation depending on your vote, if you could prevent that by killing people in foreign lands, would you do it or let your children die?

[NEOPO]

Come on man - you dance around my tough questions so allow me to dance around this one? please?

In this hypothetical scenario is this foreign culture sustainable and we not?
Which one has the best chance of survival if the other is knocked off?

These kind of questions pop into my head preventing me from saying yes.

[Chaparral]

We deserve what we got coming. I know that I am 1/300,000,000th of We and have benefited greatly. I fed at the trough long enough and am still at it, engorging my fat face with the processed entrails of a slaughtered planet and slaughtered peoples. The Mandarins that I love to hate will continue the slaughter and I will continue to slurp up the stream of slop as it slides down the trough, even as I slowly disconnect myself from the "grid". About the only thing I can do is try and eat less and less of it, still my rippling chubs of wealth are my jewelery: made of the flesh of others in distant lands, seasoned with the spice of burnt forests and ruined topsoil and cooked in the broth of financial vaporware.

To paraphrase the War Nerd: Massacres are paying my mortgages dude! Massacres are buying me enough time to get outta Dodge and onto that farm at the edge of that college town. Guess it's time to stop singing.

Mind you, just because I have my proportionate share of responsibility and realized that massacres made me wealthy doesn't mean I plan on giving it all away to the poor. Au contraire, I plan on surviving all this: this camel isn't going to try and pass through the eye of the needle. Guilt does not lay everyone equally low and I will still employ absolutely every means at my disposal to ensure that to the best of my ablility, I am one of the ones still standing. To come full circle in answering the OP, I'd rather the nation engage in voluntary powerdown but since it probably won't, I as an individual or with a small collective of like minds will do what I have to do. None will give up their ghosts in the name of justice or morality. I and we shall continue to condemn Leviathon for doing exactly what I and we are premeditatedly doing as individuals.

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('NEOPO', 'C')ome on man - you dance around my tough questions so allow me to dance around this one? please?

[NEOPO]

<does the "neopo">

Since the elitist have used the "us versus them" tool to control us ad infinitum I must ask how may this scenario come about?

Right now it seems it is us versus them and that we are already collective saying kill them for oil.
Please explain to the class how this could be turned around to where it is them killing us instead.

I am sorry but all my spidey senses tell me that "24", this thread and some other odd threads are just an extension of Elitism.
As I said to AP, all programs know they are programs but not all agents know they are agents and programs can become agents quickly.

Chaparell - one question for you please, when you say that none will give all for justice etc etc do you mean none of the "300" million or none of all the worlds people because I think I could compile a long list of peoples who indeed appeared to give all for these principles.

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('NEOPO', '
')Right now it seems it is us versus them and that we are already collective saying kill them for oil.

[Chaparral]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('NEOPO', 'C')haparell - one question for you please, when you say that none will give all for justice etc etc do you mean none of the "300" million or none of all the worlds people because I think I could compile a long list of peoples who indeed appeared to give all for these principles.

[Jack]

I voted to nuke them.

Though I prefer a generous application of I-131, or perhaps smallpox. Less damage to infrastructure.

[Specop_007]

Do we have to wait until we really need the resources?

[cynicalheretic]

I want world war 3

[NEOPO]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('NEOPO', '
')Right now it seems it is us versus them and that we are already collective saying kill them for oil.

[Wednesday]

I voted for Paraguay, except it's really Canada.

Poll needs more options.

[Jack]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', 'D')o we have to wait until we really need the resources?

[basil_hayden]

I voted no for the following reasons:

1. Nuking "them" will only make the rich richer and never benefit me or mine. Nothing in it for me.

2. Ever since I saw a photograph of the Earth taken from space in the 1960s or early 70s, I have considered myself Human first, American second, Oakland Raiders fan third. We can't keep phucking this place up. Nuking "them" will surely have environmental consequences for "us". Nothing in it for us.

3. I'm done with the government spending my money without my permission, direction, or intention. How many more enemies can the Empire possibly make before it crumbles? Nothing in it for "them".

4. We don't need to nuke anything. Like it or not, this biofuels thing coupled with peak oil will solve the population bubble, climate change is sure to help too. When something's solved by itself, there is no guilt. The solutions are already before us.

[Zardoz]

(Graeme posted this on the front page.) We all knew the oil exporters would eventually wise up and reduce their output to us oil-swilling fools, saving it for their own use, and for a future when they'll be able to get astronomical prices for it. It had to happen sooner or later, and here it is:

There has been a paradigm shift in the energy world whereby oil producers are no longer inclined to rapidly exhaust their resource for the sake of accelerating the misuse of a precious and finite commodity.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')audi Arabia's production declined 8% in 2006. This is a fact which requires interpretation, and there are two opposed views: they can't or they won't raise exports. Matt Simmons has doubts about current Saudi capacity, most prominently raised in his book Twilight in the Desert. At The Oil Drum, Stuart Staniford's analysis appears to buttress Simmons' position, but is hampered by a lack of current production data from Ghawar, which the Kingdom will not reveal. The "won't" position has gotten scant attention in the peak oil community. Al-Husseini's statement points to a fundamental reorganization of the world's future oil supply. Downstream investments in the Persian Gulf states lends support to his view that these producers will exert greater and greater control over their fossil fuel resources in the future.

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'M')any in the peak oil community have not paid enough attention to so-called "aboveground" factors. The "paradigm shift" Al-Husseini speaks of is likely to forever change the world oil supply balance.

[cube]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zardoz', '.')..
We all knew the oil exporters would eventually wise up and reduce their output to us oil-swilling fools, saving it for their own use, and for a future when they'll be able to get astronomical prices for it. It had to happen sooner or later, and here it is:
...