[tsakach]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Blacksmith', 'T')he thing that makes me warry of hybrids is the fact they are :

(1) Geared to stop and go traffic.

(2) Have batteries that will in three to four years require replacing at some cost.

Personally I would rather see desiels with some of the innovations used on hybrids.

[jboogy]

My wife bought a new prius about 3 months ago ,averaging 48 mpg,I researched on internet before we bought and prius was pretty much regarded as the best with honda right behind,battery packs are supposed to last 8 years but real world last much longer,defective battery packs have been replaced by toyota at no charge even beyond warrenty period,I read this on internet and toyota salesman told me the same thing(good customer relations)decent pick-up,great interior room,ugly car but who cares?car is very quiet.has a weird little toggle gearshift on the dash and you push a button to put it in park but you get used to it,has a camera so you can back-up without turning your head or looking in your mirrors,kinda neat. we're happy with it.

[perdition79]

Hybrid car advice? Don't buy one. They run on gasoline, just like every other car out there. When gasoline gets scarce, anyone running a car with a gasoline engine will have their mobility crippled by rationing. Get a diesel. Demand for diesel fuel is almost entirely for commercial transport, which is essential to the economy. Not to mention that a Volkswagen 1.9 TDI gets about 50 mpg highway. When rationing begins, I'll ghostride my Chrysler off an overpass and put my '97 Passat into service as the daily driver. (I'd use it now, but I'm trying to save it.)

[jesus_of_suburbia_old]

Toyota Echo

I bought mine (02') for like 8k w/ 30k mi on it. I spend around $15 a week on gas. So far, no problems.

[Honbrid]

I'll go for Honda...Here's a summary of its review with its new edition I've read a week ago..Hope this would give some better idea...
[align=justify]The new, 2007 Honda CR-V is more powerful, more stylish and more comfortable than the previous-generation 2006 models. Its new suspension geometry delivers an improved ride and better, more responsive handling.

Buyers choose from three models, the LX, the EX and the EX-L. The latter comes trimmed in leather and can be fitted with an optional navigation system that incorporates a rearview video camera for safe and easy backing. All have four doors and seat five.

The engine, still an inline four cylinder, employs variable intake valve timing to optimize horsepower and torque for acceleration and cruising speeds. The transmission is a new, five-speed automatic. Real Time all-wheel drive is offered on all three models. The U.S. EPA rates the front-wheel drive CR-V at 23/30 city/highway miles per gallon and the all-wheel drive at 22/28.

Thus, buyers looking for peppy performance, snazzy styling and easier financing have better choices. Its Honda fuel filter and other accessories were in excellent condition,too... But for Honda loyalists looking for something better than their current CR-V or an SUV to step up into from their Civic, the '07 is the logical way to go.[/align]

[FoxV]

under a 1000lbs, I wonder what a passing truck on the highway would do to that (let alone a good crosswind, or a collision with a hummer)

[gnm]

Concept this concept that.... BFD... When the F#CK can I buy one at a reasonable price. Til then I couldn't care less... I'm going to do a Toecutter (poster here) and build my own goddamn EV.

-G

[FoxV]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('HydroLuver', 'N')o worse than a motorcycle. At least with this vehicle you have a lot more protection than a motorcycle or scooter. Plus better fuel economy and the ability to carry passengers and cargo (groceries, etc)

[What2DO]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('FoxV', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('HydroLuver', 'N')o worse than a motorcycle. At least with this vehicle you have a lot more protection than a motorcycle or scooter. Plus better fuel economy and the ability to carry passengers and cargo (groceries, etc)

[agomemnon]

Toyota sees a market for plug in hybrids and hopefully so does everyone else.

I'm hopeful but skeptible. If I had the ability i'd get my prius converted to a plug-in. I would probably only drive 200 miles that whole year with gasoline. The rest would have been electric off trhe grid and off-peak hrs. Can't beat that.

[FoxV]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('What2DO', 'S')o I take it your a car designer ?
I'm pretty sure they will take in account all the points you have made.

[asdar]

It's too dramatic to say that it'd be a rolling coffin, or a kite for passing tractor trailors.

It would be less safe, this much is true, but it's comparable to avoiding swimming in the ocean because you're afraid of sharks. The odds are you'll never see a problem.

When I was young seat belts were optional, not to wear, to have installed in your car. Absolute safety isn't possible and trying to get too close to it is a luxury we don't need.

Motorcycles are more dangerous than cars, but most people aren't calling for a ban on them.

If you believe in Peak, then the weight of cars poses no threat compared to the collapse.

[yesplease]

Safety with larger vehicles is a confound to a certain extent. While they are safer in collisions where their mass is greater, they aren't in collisions where their mass is less or no other vehicles are involved. In the end, all the driver gets is something that's safer in one area, but more dangerous in others, so driver safety is a wash overall, and they do is make everything more dangerous for the smaller vehicles on the road. In other words, in the big picture, they don't do much for the driver and make the road more dangerous for everyone else.

[lys3rg0]

Fed Tax Break Encourages SUV Purchases

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')Thanks to a generous tax credit, Karl Wizinsky is driving a very large vehicle these days — a 2002 Ford Excursion.

"It doesn't hurt to have a larger vehicle, but I wouldn't say it's a requirement of my business," he said on a cell phone while driving the Excursion. "But I ended up saving $32,000."

This year, the perks of buying a large SUV — if you're a small business owner — got even bigger.

Congress recently passed a tax bill, as proposed in President Bush's economic stimulus plan, that offers a $100,000 tax credit for business owners who purchase any vehicle weighing 6,000 pounds or more when fully loaded.

[...]

Meanwhile, legislation that offers a much smaller tax break — a $2,000 tax deduction — to those who purchase fuel-efficient hybrid cars is on track to be phased out. Congress is considering legislation that would extend the tax deduction to encourage consumers to buy the hybrid cars, but the status of the bill remains uncertain.

Even though the large vehicle tax credit applies only to the self-employed while the hybrid car tax deduction applies to anyone who buys a hybrid, the stark contrast between the two amounts has environmentalists crying foul.

[emersonbiggins]

This article is four years old. That loophole has disappeared since.

[smallpoxgirl]

Forgive me if this has already been discussed, but I just came across it and I can't find a prior thread on it.

In the summer of 2006, an outfit called CNW marketing research released a report where they tried to estimate the lifecycle energy use for a number of different new cars. I was searching on the topic because I've long wondered what the actual efficiency of hybrids is. It's relatively easy to answer the question "If there's a Prius in my driveway, and I get in it and drive 500 miles, how much gas will I burn?". That though is not the real question that should be of interest to those interested in efficient vehicles. A Prius doesn't appear in your driveway by fairy magic. It is extracted from the earth as raw materials, refined, manufactured, delivered, and once you're done with it, it must be disposed. Hybrids are significantly more expensive than most cars, and much of that cost presumably reflects the energy expended in producing the car. CNW's report sought to quantify the amount of energy used by an average car from production to disposal and amortize that per mile that the vehicle will travel. Their findings are pretty shocking. They found, for example, that most SUVs have a lower lifecycle energy usage per driven mile than hybrids do.

I haven't read enough of it yet, to vouch for it's validity, but I think it's really a leap forward to start thinking vehicle efficiency in terms of lifecycle energy usage rather than just fuel economy.

The study is here:link

CNW's website is here: link

[deMolay]

I am kinda syaing the same thing on the Priuis thread. You have to look at the life cycle energy of the vehicle. People need to get the laws repealed that Car Mfg. convinced states to pass that basically force older safe vehicles off the road. I just rebulit a 1983 VW diesel pick up. I obtained the vehicle for towing it home. It had a blown head gasket. These little pk-ups are capable of 500,000 plus miles with ease, and get 50 mpg. They will run on anything being an older diesel. Very good candidate for home bio-diesel. Recycle the old vehicles. It is more enviromentally friendly. More so than looking cool in the hybrid.

[Art_Vandelai]

That study is a complete crock.

The comparison is done on the basis of "cost per mile", with the hybrids receiving a much lower # of miles driven than most of the other vehicles on the list (I guess they figure that Prius drivers generally put fewer miles on their cars than other car owners).

Also, their assumption for the # of years each car is kept is flawed. "As segments, the lowest number of years are Hybrid models as a group (12.1 years) while the highest segment is Premium SUVs such as the Range Rover and Hummer H2 (22.2 years)."

Most people make these decisions independently - how much to drive and how many years to keep the car. It makes no sense to base the comparison on these factors.

[yesplease]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Art_Vandelai', 'M')ost people make these decisions independently - how much to drive and how many years to keep the car. It makes no sense to base the comparison on these factors.

[smallpoxgirl]

Hmmm...yeah.

On further investigation, it appears that study is pretty much completely bogus.

For example see: http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2007/8/27/124134/961