[Roy]

Something a lot of SUV owners either don't know or don't understand is that full framed vehicles are only safer than cars in limited number of situations.
When a Suburban hits an Accord, the Accord gets the worst of it every time. Part of the reason is that the Accord, or any newer car, is designed to absorb the crash energy by crumpling, thus protecting the occupants.
Full frames don't crush very well. When a two full framed trucks collide, its usually bad for the occupants because they don't crumple and the crash energy gets transferred to the occupants. Not to mention the poor handling characteristics of these ancient designs and their poor weight distribution.
So, in a collision between a Ford Taurus and a Honda Accord, both cars occupants are a lot less likely to be seriously injured than a collision between a Ford Excretion and Chevy Suburban.

Of course if one of the aforementioned SUVs hits a car, then the damage to the car's occupants will be much greater because the SUV won't absorb the crash energy and the car will have to absorb the energy from both vehicles.
I'm of the school of accident avoidance. Give me a good handling car with good brakes, low center of gravity, and adequate power and I feel much more safe than when I drive a Suburban.
Technically I guess you would be safer in a Suburban as long as you collided with a modern car, but in just about every other situation, the Suburban is a death trap IMO.
This is a complex argument, and I'm not the best at articulating every facet of this argument. But I know cars, performance, handling, etc.

Almost anyone I've talked to that has similar knowledge agrees with me when the issue comes up.
The whole idea that SUVs are safer is the product of a marketing scheme geared to appeal to the consumer's reptilian brain.
I think the SUVs will become like muscle cars in the late 70's and early 80's. Those cars were a dime a dozen because no one wanted a 10 mpg car. The SUV craze took off when oil was $10 per barrel.
I for one won't miss these behemoths on the road. Especially when I see people driving them like they're sports cars.

They can be driven safely if the driver is aware of the vehicle's handling limits and braking capability. However, many SUV drivers don't seem to conceptualize the size and weight of their vehicle relative to its center of gravity and stopping distances, or so it seems. Chysler's own marketing research revealed some interesting things about SUV buyers compared to mini-van drivers.
I can't find the study, but here is a summary of it: Click Here
You can have 'em. And I wouldn't drive one if you gave it to me and paid for the gas.
My F-100 on the other hand, sees limited use for hauling. I drive it slow to save fuel, and because it handles like shit and takes half a mile to slow down from highway speeds.

Our roads would be a lot safer if more people who drove these land barges had that awareness.
I for one won't be sad to see them go, if only in the interest of safe driving. Throw in their extravagant fuel use, CO2 output, and then they look even worse. They put those of us that drive safe cars at greater risk.
Good riddance.

[ohanian]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('NevadaGhosts', 'I') was wondering how long it will be before we see the death of the gas-guzzling SUV and pickup truck. I feel that within 3 years, gas will be too expensive for the average consumer to fill up their gas-guzzling vehicle. I base this on Samsam's prediction of fuel prices tripling within 3 years. $6-$7 per gallon of gas will virtually kill today's gas-guzzlers. In the near future, I can see a huge panic of SUV trade-ins as the price of gas suddenly spikes. The used vehicle market would then be flooded with used SUV's and trucks. People trading in or selling would get very little for them, because the market would be flooded. That is why I tell my family and friends to sell their gas-guzzlers right now, while they are still worth something. What is everyone else's prediction on this

[Blacksmith]

What happened to the station wagon?

[MrBill]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Blacksmith', 'W')hat happened to the station wagon?

[xrotaryguy]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('CnnMoney.com', 'N')EW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Porsche said Tuesday a new prototype SUV hybrid will be capable of cruising at speeds up to 70 miles an hour on the electric engine alone, far faster than existing hybrids.
The hybrid version of the popular Cayenne SUV, expected to hit showrooms in the next two or three years, can't reach 70 miles per hour without the traditional engine, but once it gets there it can cruise at 70 without the need for gasoline.
porsche_cayenne.03.jpg
The non-hybrid Porsche Cayenne.

The result is a vehicle that's 25 percent more efficient than current models and can cruise considerably faster than the current 40 mph top cruising speed of the hybrid Toyota Camry.
"If Porsche was going to do a hybrid, it makes sense to do it from a performance standpoint," said company spokesman Tony Fouladpour.
The hybrid Cayenne, Porsche's first foray into the hybrid market, uses a single transmission to power both the electric motor and gasoline motor, which is partly responsible for the increased performance, said Fouladpour.

It's expected to be in the same general price range as the basic Cayenne, which starts at $44,000. Top of page

[Mesuge]

There is very few tech. details available about this thing unlike for the Toyota Prius plugin. One positive aspect though is that Porsche and VW have got some technology transfers, and almost the former bought out the latter, but the state interrupted the deal.
-> so that means they are in a way likely prototyping the technology for the future VW fleet as well..

VW made in the mid 90s a great product, full EV called VW Golf CityStromer, it was the third latest generation of previous electric golfs and jettas from them.
The traction system was a high end product from Siemens, certainly in the same top quality league of AC system as the GM and Toyota later during the decade , but with a bit smaller power output >100kW. Ford Ranger EV in the US was based on more powerfull high voltage version of this same Siemens AC system:




Some of my friends are driving these puppies with agm/gel lead acids, range cca 70-85km per charge (could be more with opportunity/fast charging during the day). The whole package was and still is in many ways a state of the art gadget - it has a thermal management to preheat the batteries as well as a rudimentary BMS.
With upgrade to new lighter batteries Li/polymer they will continue to shine even more in the future. Lead batt. pack version is cca 480kg and in lithium the same 17kWh batt. pack cca 110-150kg..
Of the Gen. III only ~200 copies were made, so this is as rare as it can get.

[KevO]

well it has to be said that the Germans are historically good at starting wars which everybody, even eventually the USA, joins in with.

so get out of the SU.
ve have vays of making you walk

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'B')ERLIN - Radical enviromentalists in Germany have declared war on sport utility vehicles and luxury cars, deflating the tyres of more than 80 fuel-guzzlers in less than a week, a Berlin police spokesman said on Friday.


In night-time raids the environmentalists targeted 4x4 SUVs and large luxury vehicles across Berlin, leaving hand-written notes for their owners which pointed to the link between carbon dioxide (CO2) emissions and global warming.

Although there were differences in the way the tyres were deflated -- some were slashed but others simply had the air let out of them -- investigators assume that one group is behind the campaign, the spokesman said.

The police believe the group may be linked to international organisations such as the "World Carfree Network", which encourages direct action in its quarterly magazine "Carbusters" published in Prague.

Similar groups in France and Belgium have been known to smear cars with manure.

[Smudger]

I have to say this type of protest is rather pathetic. it will simply cause people to view people concerned with Climate change, peak oil etc as just the new generation of tree huggers.

[KevO]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Smudger', 'I') have to say this type of protest is rather pathetic. it will simply cause people to view people concerned with Climate change, peak oil etc as just the new generation of tree huggers.

[Chesire]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KevO', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Smudger', 'I') have to say this type of protest is rather pathetic. it will simply cause people to view people concerned with Climate change, peak oil etc as just the new generation of tree huggers.

[KevO]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Chesire', '[')d sex and fox hunting thing some . Seems to me that in the current state of affairs with guns and hunting in the UK . People with firearms will have a distinct advantage over the unwashed masses with melee weapons during the crash. For the record the UK has always had some sort of "non mainstream" sexual culture .

[I_Like_Plants]

KevO you realize of course there are about 3 Americans who know who/what Banksy is, I'm one, and the other two probably don't read this site....

[peasea]

destroying SUV maybe let of some steam in the short run but as oil reaches $150 a barrel economics will do the trick better.

I actually don't support this kind of tactic ( even if I've thought it as some twat in BMW SUV tries to push me off the road again... grrrh!) .

I can see in the grim future that owning one is going to get you targetted ........... (along with yer patio heater )

[KevO]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('peasea', '
')I can see in the grim future that owning one is going to get you targetted ........... (along with yer patio heater )

[NotMyBlood]

Well, I understand these organizations feel passionate about GW/Climate Change and feel something needs to be done! Since the government isnt doing enough!!! I respect that; However, I this case and 99% of other cases they should act within the rules of the law. Smoking used to be considered "cool", "sexy". But since the evidence has been proven 100% and the problem made public, anti-smoking organizations acted in a manner within the law and now if you smoke(seems the only place you can do that is in your home) your considered dumb, backward, stupid.

I wonder, since second hand smoke is potentially killing me and other "innocent people", should I throw a bucket of water on every smoker? Burn down kwik-e-marts that sell cigarettes?

[kanman]

This forum is a constant source of inspiration and ideas.

I'm just popping out to the Co-op for some cream cheese. Anyone know the opening hours for the RSPCA?

[lys3rg0]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('I_Like_Plants', 'K')evO you realize of course there are about 3 Americans who know who/what Banksy is, I'm one, and the other two probably don't read this site....

[NotMyBlood]

I had no idea what banksy was; thought it might of have been one of those odd english verbs. You brits can get really wierd.


Colonel: Marine, what is that button on your body armour?
Joker: A peace symbol sir.
Colonel: Where'd you get it?
Joker: I don't remember sir.
Colonel: What is that you've got written on your helmet?
Joker: "Born to Kill" sir.
Colonel: You write "Born to Kill" on you helmet, and you wear a peace button. What's that supposed to be, some kind of sick joke?
Joker: No, sir.
Colonel: Well what is it supposed to mean?
Joker: I don't know, sir.
Colonel: You don't know very much do you?
Joker: No sir.
Colonel: You better get your head and your ass wired together or I will take a giant shit on you.
Joker: Yes sir.
Colonel: Now answer my question, or you'll be standing tall before The Man.
Joker: I think I was trying to suggest something about the duality of man sir.
Colonel: The what?
Joker: The duality of man, the Jungian thing, sir.
Colonel: Who's side are you on, son?
Joker: Our side, sir.
Colonel: Don't you love your country?
Joker: Yes, sir.
Colonel: Well how about getting with the program? Why don't you jump on the team and c'mon in for the big win?
Joker: Yes, sir.
Colonel: Son, all I've ever asked of my Marines is for them to obey my orders as they would the word of God. We are here to help the Vietnamese because inside every gook, there is an American trying to get out. It's a hardball world, son. We've got to try to keep our heads until this peace craze blows over.
Joker: Aye aye, sir.

[dukey]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')t wasn't a fair fight at all, but for funsies, a vintage-car hill-climb allowed Forbes Magazine to enter a late model HUMMER H2. You know, just to see how the 316-hp, 4WD SUV would do against, say, a 100-hp 1921 Model T driven by a 70-year-old man. Like we said, it wasn't fair at all.
The HUMMER climbed the 475-foot-tall hill in 10.74 seconds and didn't even break a sweat. Among those not surprised at the HUMMER's prowess was Gary Le Fever, the Model T driver who was waiting at the top of the hill for the H2. Le Fever and his 86-year-old Ford had finished the climb in 9.96 seconds!
Not a huge difference in a conventional match-up, but considering the participants, an amazing triumph for the Model T's engineering simplicity over the HUMMER's hefty muscle.

[pup55]

Hilarious.
The Model T gets about 20 mpg, and these seemed to have lasted 80 years.
The hummer gets about 8 mpg, and there is some question as to how long they will last.
No doubt there are other measurements, such as comfort and crash durability, that would favor the hummer. However, the Model T was well known for the beneficial feature that if you jacked it up and took off one of the drive wheels, you could use a belt to power a saw, log splitter, or a variety of other implements: Wikipedia
We also know that the Model T cost $300 in the 20's, which is about 3K in 2007 dollars, whereas you can get a used Hummer around here for about $30K these days.
So if oilmageddon hits, what would you rather have?