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Re: Military kidnapping protester at G20

Unread postby gollum » Fri 25 Sep 2009, 17:02:24

Gotta start somewhere, it's a tragedy that the other protesters didn't beat these military thugs within an inch of their lives. I never thought I'd see the day that uniformed military would snatch a person from the street just like a banana republic dictatorship.
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Re: Military kidnapping protester at G20

Unread postby Koyaanisqatsi » Fri 25 Sep 2009, 19:20:16

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gollum', 'G')otta start somewhere, it's a tragedy that the other protesters didn't beat these military thugs within an inch of their lives. I never thought I'd see the day that uniformed military would snatch a person from the street just like a banana republic dictatorship.


I think its a provocation - they are just goading the protesters to react.

First, the "soldiers" are all wearing different uniforms - these are thugs, not real soldiers.

Second, note the red bandanna guy time 22s in the video in the original post:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWP9DhDIz64

Is the same guy arrested apparently only minutes later - note how the police take their time with the whole process, as if waiting for someone to react:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_acjSiJRbo

Red bandanna guy is the same jackoff acting out at minute 3:00 in another section of town:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFLFWmXdMZY

He seems to be in all the wrong places at all the wrong times.
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Re: Military kidnapping protester at G20

Unread postby smallpoxgirl » Fri 25 Sep 2009, 19:25:06

Image

Sorry to rain on a good conspiracy theory. The guys in camo are Pennsylvania State Police.

The top image is at a funeral of a cop killed several months ago. The bottom image is the snatch squad searching and cuffing the kid. The two red circles are the same guy.
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Re: Military kidnapping protester at G20

Unread postby Koyaanisqatsi » Fri 25 Sep 2009, 19:38:11

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', '
')Sorry to rain on a good conspiracy theory. The guys in camo are Pennsylvania State Police.

The top image is at a funeral of a cop killed several months ago. The bottom image is the snatch squad searching and cuffing the kid. The two red circles are the same guy.


Sorry, what's your point?
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Re: Military kidnapping protester at G20

Unread postby Nefarious » Fri 25 Sep 2009, 19:40:24

That's some impressive detective work! Same day video comes out and it is matched with a picture from a funeral from several months earlier to identify who the guys are - all in the same day. Who ever figured that out needs to work for the gov. with those kinds of skills.
I'm not a conspiracy theorist by any means but that's some damn fast identifying - from a photo only.
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Re: Military kidnapping protester at G20

Unread postby smallpoxgirl » Fri 25 Sep 2009, 19:48:30

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Nefarious', 'T')hat's some impressive detective work! Same day video comes out and it is matched with a picture from a funeral from several months earlier to identify who the guys are - all in the same day. Who ever figured that out needs to work for the gov. with those kinds of skills.
I'm not a conspiracy theorist by any means but that's some damn fast identifying - from a photo only.


Amazing the things google will turn up for you. And the video came out yesterday. The blogosphere is all abuzz about it.
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Re: Military kidnapping protester at G20

Unread postby Koyaanisqatsi » Fri 25 Sep 2009, 19:51:30

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Nefarious', 'T')hat's some impressive detective work! Same day video comes out and it is matched with a picture from a funeral from several months earlier to identify who the guys are - all in the same day. Who ever figured that out needs to work for the gov. with those kinds of skills.
I'm not a conspiracy theorist by any means but that's some damn fast identifying - from a photo only.


Amazing the things google will turn up for you. And the video came out yesterday. The blogosphere is all abuzz about it.


So what's your point?
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Re: Military kidnapping protester at G20

Unread postby smallpoxgirl » Fri 25 Sep 2009, 19:56:35

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Koyaanisqatsi', 'S')orry, what's your point?


My point was the kid (allegedly) vandalized a local business, so the state police arrested him. Nothing especially surprising. Happens at any major protest. The story here was that people thought it was military which would be a violation of federal law.

As for your concerns about provocateurs, it certainly wouldn't surprise me. It's a good bet that most big protests will have some. It's estimated that at one point 40% of the members of Communist Party USA were police infiltrators.
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Re: Military kidnapping protester at G20

Unread postby DomusAlbion » Fri 25 Sep 2009, 19:56:58

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Koyaanisqatsi', 'S')o what's your point?


The point is that a trouble maker was lawfully detained by Penn State police and not the US Military.
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Re: Military kidnapping protester at G20

Unread postby Koyaanisqatsi » Fri 25 Sep 2009, 20:04:46

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Koyaanisqatsi', 'S')orry, what's your point?


My point was the kid (allegedly) vandalized a local business, so the state police arrested him. Nothing especially surprising. Happens at any major protest. The story here was that people thought it was military which would be a violation of federal law.

As for your concerns about provocateurs, it certainly wouldn't surprise me. It's a good bet that most big protests will have some. It's estimated that at one point 40% of the members of Communist Party USA were police infiltrators.


How was bundling him into a private car an arrest? Did they read him his Miranda rights? Which guy in the video is the one in your photos? If this were actually the police and not a group of thugs, then that's even worse. Police or soldiers, it is no less provocative.
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Re: Military kidnapping protester at G20

Unread postby smallpoxgirl » Fri 25 Sep 2009, 20:16:24

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Koyaanisqatsi', 'H')ow was bundling him into a private car an arrest? Did they read him his Miranda rights? Which guy in the video is the one in your photos? If this were actually the police and not a group of thugs, then that's even worse. Police or soldiers, it is no less provocative.


You've seen a few to many cop shows on TV I think. That's not how cops arrest people. Certainly not at big protests. And yeah, they mirandized him, searched him, and cuffed him once they got back behind the lines of riot cops. Provocative or not it's perfectly legal and happens all the time. The Miranda rule just says that if they question you without reading you the Miranda warning, then your statements may not be admissible in court. There's certainly no requirement that they can't arrest you until they read that or something. And where did you get the idea that it's a private car? How many private people do you know that drive neutral toned Crown Victorias with tinted windows? That's an unmarked cop car.

The circled guy is the one driving the crown vic. The black cop holding the kid's blue backpack and the white guy next to him were the two that grabbed the kid. The guy kneeling cuffing the kid appears to be the guy on the far side of the crown vic wearing a baseball cap and gray camo.
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Re: Military kidnapping protester at G20

Unread postby Koyaanisqatsi » Fri 25 Sep 2009, 20:25:09

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', '
')You've seen a few to many cop shows on TV I think.

Why always the snide remarks from you? I never watch cop shows.


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', '
')That's not how cops arrest people. Certainly not at big protests.

Okay. Do they normally use civilian vehicles? Maybe they do, but I haven't seen it before.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', '
')And yeah, they mirandized him, searched him, and cuffed him once they got back behind the lines of riot cops. Provocative or not it's perfectly legal and happens all the time.

Thanks - link?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')The circled guy is the one driving the crown vic. The black cop holding the kid's blue backpack and the white guy next to him were the two that grabbed the kid. The guy kneeling cuffing the kid appears to be the guy on the far side of the crown vic wearing a baseball cap and gray camo.


I don't know how you read that - I can't make heads or tails out of the people in the video.
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Re: Military kidnapping protester at G20

Unread postby Koyaanisqatsi » Fri 25 Sep 2009, 20:30:23

Link to coverage of Pittsburgh events:
http://indypgh.org/g20/#
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Re: Military kidnapping protester at G20

Unread postby smallpoxgirl » Fri 25 Sep 2009, 20:30:49

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Koyaanisqatsi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', '
')That's not how cops arrest people. Certainly not at big protests.

Okay. Do they normally use civilian vehicles? Maybe they do, but I haven't seen it before.


Police cars don't all have giant decals on the side that say "POLICE". A neutral toned Crown Victoria with tinted windows is a cop car until proven otherwise in my book. Especially when four cops jump out of it and arrest someone.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') don't know how you read that - I can't make heads or tails out of the people in the video.


There are several versions of the arrest video. The faces are a little clearer in this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8CNa_viKg0
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Re: Military kidnapping protester at G20

Unread postby Koyaanisqatsi » Fri 25 Sep 2009, 20:41:35

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', '
')There are several versions of the arrest video. The faces are a little clearer in this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8CNa_viKg0


Yeah, that convinced me. If they read him his rights too, then all is well with democracy in America.

I still have my suspicions about bandanna guy, though.
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Re: Military kidnapping protester at G20

Unread postby Koyaanisqatsi » Fri 25 Sep 2009, 22:13:14

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', 'P')rovocative or not it's perfectly legal and happens all the time.


That's the crux of the issue, isn't it? If I'm ever walking down the street and an unmarked car swings in from nowhere, four goons in military garb hop out and hustle my companion by force inside, and then speed away, I'll know not to worry because they are probably police and it is all perfectly legal.

I'm not questioning that this is the case, but how does it work? What if that guy were a blackbelt and took out one of the cops? He could have claimed he didn't know they were police. What is the "legal" argument against him?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', 'A')nd where did you get the idea that it's a private car? How many private people do you know that drive neutral toned Crown Victorias with tinted windows? That's an unmarked cop car.


Makes no difference, private or unmarked cop car. The point is that a civilian has no way of knowing who they are. So what if it is a government car? In Argentina it was the Ford Falcon that whisked people away to the torture chambers. It was all perfectly legal there, too.
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Re: Military kidnapping protester at G20

Unread postby smallpoxgirl » Fri 25 Sep 2009, 22:39:42

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Koyaanisqatsi', 'T')hat's the crux of the issue, isn't it? If I'm ever walking down the street and an unmarked car swings in from nowhere, four goons in military garb hop out and hustle my companion by force inside, and then speed away, I'll know not to worry because they are probably police and it is all perfectly legal.

I'm not questioning that this is the case, but how does it work? What if that guy were a blackbelt and took out one of the cops? He could have claimed he didn't know they were police. What is the "legal" argument against him?


They actually are wearing ID cards in those pouches on their arms, but I'm sure that argument could be made. In a situation like that their basic assumption is that you're not going to comply one way or the other, so they're trying to bring maximum force down on you as abruptly as possible to minimize your resistance. Where this approach becomes even more poignant is with no-knock warrants. Police have grown exceedingly fond of busting down doors in the middle of the night and swarming in to serve arrest warrants. There have been instances where the police did that and the homeowner/arrestee thought he was being robbed and shot the police. Undoubtedly there have been countless such situations where such confusion lead to the arrestee being killed without much publicity. The real problem, IMHO, with dressing cops up in fatigues is that they start to forget who they are. Cops who dress like soldiers, carry soldier's weapons, cut their hair like soldiers, strut around like soldier, they start acting like soldiers. They get too focused on tactics and forget public relations. Invading another country is not the same thing as policing your fellow citizens. The two require very different attitudes and approaches. IMHO, there are far too many cops out there trying to play soldier and making us the de facto enemy combatants.
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Re: Military kidnapping protester at G20

Unread postby Sixstrings » Fri 25 Sep 2009, 22:53:35

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', 'S')orry to rain on a good conspiracy theory. The guys in camo are Pennsylvania State Police.

The top image is at a funeral of a cop killed several months ago. The bottom image is the snatch squad searching and cuffing the kid. The two red circles are the same guy.


Ok.. if that's the case then WHY the heck are state police wearing military camo???
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Re: Military kidnapping protester at G20

Unread postby smallpoxgirl » Fri 25 Sep 2009, 23:16:02

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', 'O')k.. if that's the case then WHY the heck are state police wearing military camo???


Because it's tacti-cool. Grown up boys playing GI Joe.
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Re: Military kidnapping protester at G20

Unread postby Cloud9 » Fri 25 Sep 2009, 23:39:43

The new stuff is digital. This is an old pattern.
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