[Novus]

He was walking too slow so they would have had to go around him to get to the crowd and he had his hands in his pockets. Hands in pockets means possible weapon. That is what cops are trained to do. Those police have likely been hitting and shoving people all day. This guy is nothing different. What was different was the guy probably would have been in a Suit and tie if not for the protests. Who goes to work dressed like that? He is probably a pigman banker anyway who was hanging a bit too close under the cops nuts and got bitch slapped for it. I am not really feeling any sympathy for this guy.

We live in an evil time full of evil people under an evil system. There are no innocents.

[EnergyUnlimited]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Micki', 'A') few years ago I couldn't imagine I would come to call police pigs, but I can't find a better word.

Ian Tomlinson (47) was walking home from work through the G20 protest areas when he was suddenly assaulted by a policeman. Ian died that day from a masive hear attack.
Thank God for video camers or Ian would have been labeled a trouble maker.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/video/2009/apr/07/g20-police-assault-video

Are these people working for us or against us?
People shouldn't be afraid of the state, the state should be afraid of it's people.
Make you opinion heard.

[davep]

He was walking slowly because he had already been assaulted, according to witnesses.

There are photographs of him after he collapsed with head wounds. There is going to be a second post-mortem since the new evidence has arrived. It may not have been a heart attack. The police who pushed him from behind (while his hands were in his pockets) causing him to bang his head could be up for an involuntary manslaughter charge.

[mefistofeles]

To me this looks like a crowd control situation gone awry. The police were in the middle of an operation, and he should got in front of its that simple. From a situational perspective their primary mission was crowd control, they had to track hundreds of protestors. He isn't the only person of interest that they're tracking.

Let's be honest getting in front of a group of police officiers attempting to control a mob really isn't smart. They also appeared to use what I would call a proper force level, he was in their way and they forced him down with lowest force level possible. Once the victim was out of the way the police officiers moved on.

Part of controlling a mob is being able to maintain formation and his movement disrupted the police formation.

I don't think he deserved to die but I do think he was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Its important to remember that mobs can get out of control and can quickly go from peaceful protesters to burning cars and smashing store fronts causing millions in damages, look at Los Angeles in 1992. The LA Riots started because police pulled out of an area with 30 protesters and riots quickly spread throughout the city,requiring the deployment of national guard forces. Hence the need for a strong but not excessive initial response.

Personally I feel the victim died of adrenal overload. A few months ago I was riding a bike and hit a car and caught air. Initially I thought it was a pretty neat experience,but afterwards despite a lack of injuries (due to protective gear I was wearing at the time) I experienced an extremely elevated heart rate and pulse for a while after the accident. When the parademics finally got to the scene (ten minutes later) they measured my heartrate at 150 bpm. It stayed elevated for quite a while because of my body was put into a life or death sitaution. I think the same thing probably happened to the victim, he's walking along and boom he's assualted. That's bound to trigger a major adrenal release,especially after a stressful day at the office. If you're not healthy it could be dangerous for your heart to be working at 150+ bpm for a ten or fifteen minutes.

[davep]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mefistofeles', 'T')o me this looks like a crowd control situation gone awry. The police were in the middle of an operation, and he should got in front of its that simple. From a situational perspective their primary mission was crowd control, they had to track hundreds of protestors. He isn't the only person of interest that they're tracking.

Let's be honest getting in front of a group of police officiers attempting to control a mob really isn't smart. They also appeared to use what I would call a proper force level, he was in their way and they forced him down with lowest force level possible. Once the victim was out of the way the police officiers moved on.

Part of controlling a mob is being able to maintain formation and his movement disrupted the police formation.

I don't think he deserved to die but I do think he was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Its important to remember that mobs can get out of control and can quickly go from peaceful protesters to burning cars and smashing store fronts causing millions in damages, look at Los Angeles in 1992. The LA Riots started because police pulled out of an area with 30 protesters and riots quickly spread throughout the city,requiring the deployment of national guard forces. Hence the need for a strong but not excessive initial response.

[mefistofeles]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he crowd had been peaceful, yet the police were looking for a fight.

[Micki]

When you sneak up behind someone peacefully walking and push them with two hands so that he falls into the street, I dont' call it minimal level of force. I call is assault and I hope the assaulting policeman is charged at least for that.
If they keep getting away with such, then they'll move up the ladder to the next level of violence.
As you know Mephisto, this is already common behaviour, to push, beat, taze people without reason.

[mefistofeles]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')hen you sneak up behind someone peacefully walking and push them with two hands so that he falls into the street, I dont' call it minimal level of force. I call is assault and I hope the assaulting policeman is charged at least for that.

[davep]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mefistofeles', '
')In fact several protestors have confirmed that police were involved in clashes with protesters beforehand and that police actually sent Medics to attend to the injured man:

[argyle]

I don't know about you guys, but this person was NO threat to any of the policemen or the situation at hand.

It wasn't like the police were charging a crowd, it seems they were merely setting up a defensive line, not clearing a street or area, but rather seal off. There was no rush to setup this defensive line (like when a mob disperses into differnt streets, and thus can cause more mayhem and is harder to control).
Just by havin the police walk there, that direction was already secured (I didn't see any protesters try to break through or attack them -> I wouldn't if they had attack dogs with them)

The violent nature of the police action was totally not needed. That person did not make any "offensive actions" towards the police, and was actually slowly walking away from them. Their cmdr should have made a decent defensive line to start with, and if they would come across any stragglers, they would have been able to slow their pace and still hold the line (or atleast "prod" the ppl in the right direction, which is differnent from assaulting him from behind, totally unaware -> you can see this is exactly what the officer with the dog and cap does, the one that hits him, even leaves his position in the line that is forming to go out and hit him, he was only out to give ppl a beating (probably full of adrenaline and didn't have himself under control))

Even if he had not died afterwards, the actions of the police, an unneeded, unprovoked, unexpected attack from behind, should have been investigated under any circumstances. Not just because the person died afterwards.

Refusal by the police to assist the man when he did collapse is even more unforgiving (this mainly to the officer that is overseeing this "operation"). Even as a civilian, atleast in Belgium, you can be charged in front of a court if you have neglected to assist anyone in distress.

[smallpoxgirl]

Police behavior for these sorts of events is routinely and systematically abusive. Every one of these events includes a budget for the millions of dollars in civil rights abuse lawsuits that the city will lose because they behave in a routinely abusive and illegal fashion. Being assaulted by police officers and slammed into the ground while you're trying to walk home from work is absolutely enough stress to produce a fatal heart attack in a vulnerable individual. There is absolutely no excuse for beating up innocent people because they're in your way. None. Pegging this on a single cop though is a huge miscarriage. These jerk offs will be in another city next year holding the same sort of conference. Citizens in that city will be just as pissed off, and the police will be forced to resort to illegal tactics to protect them from the constituency there too. This death needs to be hung right where it belongs. Square around the neck of Barack Obama and all the other abusive rulers of the g20.

[johhnytrash]

He had his hands in his pockets and he was impeding police formation. In a protest situation, that's looking like someone with a concealed weapon. For the police to be safe, they need to form that line. I don't know if you can say for certain that the cop was 100% wrong. Now the cop punching the grinding the face of the guy they are arresting from the subsequent post ... THAT cop is scum.

Police aren't there to protect you, they are there to protect property from you. Laws give them authority and they are trained to submit people anyway they can. I give them a wide a berth as I can. I don't trust them. They are like hungry predators, waiting for you to give them an excuse to kick the crap out of you. I'm not surprised by any police brutality that I see. Angered and sickened, but not surprised.

And when the peak comes and anarchy starts to leak into the system we can expect more brutality, not less. And if the cops go away, the organizations that will fill the vacuum can be expected to be even more brutal and less restrained in the use of force. There is no solution. People suck.

[Chuckmak]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Novus', 'H')e was walking too slow so they would have had to go around him to get to the crowd and he had his hands in his pockets. Hands in pockets means possible weapon. That is what cops are trained to do. Those police have likely been hitting and shoving people all day. This guy is nothing different. What was different was the guy probably would have been in a Suit and tie if not for the protests. Who goes to work dressed like that? He is probably a pigman banker anyway who was hanging a bit too close under the cops nuts and got bitch slapped for it. I am not really feeling any sympathy for this guy.

We live in an evil time full of evil people under an evil system. There are no innocents.

[Dreamtwister]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mefistofeles', 'B')etween London's CCTV system

[Jotapay]

After reading mefistofeles post, I know what Morpheus meant when he said that some people wired into the Matrix will actually defend it....

[smallpoxgirl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Dreamtwister', 'Y')ou need a new perscription for your eyeglasses. The "minimum level of force" would have been a 1/4 to 1/2 strength push to the upper back and shoulders, not a strike to the knees with a baton, followed by a tackle.

[Quinny]

Sergeant Mefistofeles to you young man - now move along quietly now

Or I'll kick your f*cking head in.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jotapay', 'A')fter reading mefistofeles post, I know what Morpheus meant when he said that some people wired into the Matrix will actually defend it....

[rangerone314]

I laughed when I read the article, nothing really changes for the better ever.

Unfortunately police everywhere share 3 common traits:

1) They do not really usually PREVENT crimes from happening.

2) At best they are like garbage men cleaning up after a mess has already happened.

3) Generally, they are tools of the gov/elite (read: rich & powerful) who exist to suppress political dissent by people who realize that Republics / Constitutional Monarchies / whatever are just democratic window-dressing for plutocracy.

4) They are revenue agents for rent-seeking governments looking for revenue outside of traditional taxes (income, property, sales)

[mefistofeles]

Lol I'm obviously not going to win this debate. But it is good to see that respect for liberty is high on peakoil. I suppose it is better to err on the side of liberty than tyranny.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')hich had been deactivated

[Dreamtwister]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mefistofeles', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')hich had been deactivated