[Zentric]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zentric', ' ')If the principles of Cargill and Archer Daniels Midland got together and decided to either plant a whole lot or almost no corn next year, and to plant either a whole lot or almost no other grains instead, do you think that could influence the price of corn or the value of corn futures?

[Zentric]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zentric', ' ')If the principles of Cargill and Archer Daniels Midland got together and decided to either plant a whole lot or almost no corn next year, and to plant either a whole lot or almost no other grains instead, do you think that could influence the price of corn or the value of corn futures?

[threadbear]

Goodnight Buddy. That was fun.

[MonteQuest]

More of the homework I've done to have my position:

Paul Sankey is lead oil analyst and Managing Director at Deutsche Bank before US Senate May 15, 2007

http://energy.senate.gov/public/_files/ ... timony.pdf

[AirlinePilot]

Monte, dont you know that relying on industry analysts is a no-no? I mean they surely are part of the collusion andmalfeasance too. That Senate hearing is obviously rigged. I'm shocked at you Monte...tsk, tsk.

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', ' ')
What about corn sweeteners. Did YOU notice?

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', 'I')t's not too late to change the name from Oil Drum to Oil Dumb. Seriously, they should think about it.

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AirlinePilot', 'M')onte, dont you know that relying on industry analysts is a no-no? I mean they surely are part of the collusion andmalfeasance too. That Senate hearing is obviously rigged. I'm shocked at you Monte...tsk, tsk.

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', ' ')Oil and Gas Journal’s Worldwide Refinery Survey for 2002:

Major oil companies dominate the refining industry. The top 10 U.S. refiners, all of them major integrated oil companies or refiner/marketers, control more than 80 percent of all domestic oil refinery capacity. Of those top 10 U.S. refiners, four of them (ExxonMobil, Royal Dutch/Shell, British Petroleum PLC and Chevron Texaco) are the top four refiners in the world.

http://www.localnews1.net/1state&localb ... 7/gas.html

Perhaps HE would like to challenge the Oil and Gas Journal's own survey?

[MonteQuest]

Bottom line here: There is no compelling evidence of price gouging by any aspect of the oil industry, and the recent run-up in gas prices due to refinery problems has been readily explained by market forces over at the oildrum.

From a conference call with the American Petroleum Institute.:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'R')ED CAVANEY: A couple points I would make in terms of a lot of the claims that are out there and a lot of the activity: first of all, contrary to the claims that a number of critics are making, there is not any overwhelming evidence to indicate that refiners are withholding supplies or manipulating the market. In fact, if you look at the data, refiners are producing record amounts of fuel and they’re doing that in response to record demand. Refiners have, in fact, been expanding capacity for some time. If you look at the last decade, we’ve added the equivalent of 10 new refineries and if you look at the announced capacity expansions which are to come on line between now and 2011, you’re talking about an additional eight more refineries.

[MonteQuest]

Oil executive responds to outcry

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'Q'): In the first quarter, the major producers of gasoline saw profits from refining operations in the U.S. and abroad grow 50 percent over last year, and the second quarter is also expected to be strong. It would be easy to look at high gas prices and those profit numbers and assume something isn't right. Why shouldn't people do that?

A: The country is short of refining capacity. That is a direct outflow of a business that, say, in 2003 and 2004 had an average return of 6 percent or lower.

So there has not been a lot of margin in refining over the years, and there hasn't been a huge incentive for refiners to invest. Now, all of the sudden, you find yourself in a situation where demand has caught up with production capacity, and the pressure is on.

For a while we were able to compensate with imports from Europe, and that is still happening. But obviously we're in a different world right now ... With refineries running close to 100 percent capacity, any little thing that happens has an impact. It is a matter of enough capacity. In order to build that capacity, you need four to five years. So we'll have to wait till that catches up.

[threadbear]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '[')b]Oil executive responds to outcry

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'Q'): In the first quarter, the major producers of gasoline saw profits from refining operations in the U.S. and abroad grow 50 percent over last year, and the second quarter is also expected to be strong. It would be easy to look at high gas prices and those profit numbers and assume something isn't right. Why shouldn't people do that?

A: The country is short of refining capacity. That is a direct outflow of a business that, say, in 2003 and 2004 had an average return of 6 percent or lower.

So there has not been a lot of margin in refining over the years, and there hasn't been a huge incentive for refiners to invest. Now, all of the sudden, you find yourself in a situation where demand has caught up with production capacity, and the pressure is on.

For a while we were able to compensate with imports from Europe, and that is still happening. But obviously we're in a different world right now ... With refineries running close to 100 percent capacity, any little thing that happens has an impact. It is a matter of enough capacity. In order to build that capacity, you need four to five years. So we'll have to wait till that catches up.

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', ' ')Quoting apologists for Big Oil now, to justify record profits? How does this in any way rebut the position I take, Montequest. Hmmm? You're just reinforcing my point. Gasoline prices are a feature, both of peak oil and gouging at the refinery level.

[threadbear]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', ' ')Quoting apologists for Big Oil now, to justify record profits? How does this in any way rebut the position I take, Montequest. Hmmm? You're just reinforcing my point. Gasoline prices are a feature, both of peak oil and gouging at the refinery level.

[Zentric]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '[')b]Oil executive responds to outcry

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'Q'): In the first quarter, the major producers of gasoline saw profits from refining operations in the U.S. and abroad grow 50 percent over last year, and the second quarter is also expected to be strong. It would be easy to look at high gas prices and those profit numbers and assume something isn't right. Why shouldn't people do that?

A: The country is short of refining capacity. That is a direct outflow of a business that, say, in 2003 and 2004 had an average return of 6 percent or lower.

So there has not been a lot of margin in refining over the years, and there hasn't been a huge incentive for refiners to invest. Now, all of the sudden, you find yourself in a situation where demand has caught up with production capacity, and the pressure is on.

For a while we were able to compensate with imports from Europe, and that is still happening. But obviously we're in a different world right now ... With refineries running close to 100 percent capacity, any little thing that happens has an impact. It is a matter of enough capacity. In order to build that capacity, you need four to five years. So we'll have to wait till that catches up.

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zentric', ' ') So, considering how you're certain that you've seen no indication of supply-related collusion in the industry, you should have no trouble providing a link that gives us the definitive account of the events that allowed domestic demand to race so quickly ahead of projected supply - or, alternatively, tells us what caused domestic supplies to plummet in relation to projected demand.

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zentric', ' ')I'm afraid threadbear's right. You were caught trying to pass along someone else's crud as premium high-grade stuff.

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', ' ')Ad hominims??

[threadbear]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', ' ')Ad hominims??

[Zentric]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zentric', ' ') So, considering how you're certain that you've seen no indication of supply-related collusion in the industry, you should have no trouble providing a link that gives us the definitive account of the events that allowed domestic demand to race so quickly ahead of projected supply - or, alternatively, tells us what caused domestic supplies to plummet in relation to projected demand.