[vtsnowedin]

I rather think of my self as a REALIST!!
My math is not off. If charging a volt everyday doesn't double your bill then you are already using more then 13 KWH per day. That's the only difference. My price for last KWHs is over .17/KWH. They discount the first 200KWH to .077/kwh as a lifeline to the poor. That is how doubling my usage will more then double my bill.
Where does your electricity come from bye the way. If it's from an old coal burning plant switching from gas to your electric grid might cause more greenhouse gasses not less.
I'm not against EVs. I just want to build the nuclear power plants to charge them at the same time we build the cars, along with what wind and solar is feasible. As that seems to be politically impossible we would be better to buy the most efficient conventional car as possible and then cut our yearly mileage in half. That will save a lot more oil and money then EVs and hybrids will ever accomplish. What really Ts me off are the tax subsidies that they are charging me for to pay you to waste money on a losing proposition. If EVs really made economic and environmental sense they would need no subsidy.

[Xenophobe]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', '8')) I rather think of my self as a REALIST!!
My math is not off. If charging a volt everyday doesn't double your bill then you are already using more then 13 KWH per day. That's the only difference. My price for last KWHs is over .17/KWH. They discount the first 200KWH to .077/kwh as a lifeline to the poor. That is how doubling my usage will more then double my bill.

[Keith_McClary]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Xenophobe', 'C')an't afford it? Don't buy one. Drive less. Stop driving. Buy a used Prius, drove past a lightly used one for $16G's just last night at the local toyota dealership.

Stop whining about it man! Solve your own peak oil problems immediately and let gasoline hit $10/gal and you won't care either!

[Keith_McClary]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Xenophobe', 'G')asoline cost to the American consumer is a 1:1 effect, BUT ONLY ON THEIR GASOLINE CONSUMPTION COSTS. Americans mitigate against increased gasoline costs by doing away with some of that 50% discretionary car use they don't need, each to his own means. Fuel costs DON'T cause 1:1 increases in prices of other things, because in other industries fuel costs can be apportioned to the product being shipped.
...
The means to save our personal finances from those increased costs is as far away as the Chevy dealership. DO NOT BE AFRAID THUJA!!!! THE FORCE CHEVY VOLT IS WITH US!

[vtsnowedin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Keith_McClary', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Xenophobe', 'G')asoline cost to the American consumer is a 1:1 effect, BUT ONLY ON THEIR GASOLINE CONSUMPTION COSTS. Americans mitigate against increased gasoline costs by doing away with some of that 50% discretionary car use they don't need, each to his own means. Fuel costs DON'T cause 1:1 increases in prices of other things, because in other industries fuel costs can be apportioned to the product being shipped.
...
The means to save our personal finances from those increased costs is as far away as the Chevy dealership. DO NOT BE AFRAID THUJA!!!! THE FORCE CHEVY VOLT IS WITH US!

[vtsnowedin]

OK Xeno lets try this one more time.
There are 250 million registered cars in the USA. We drive them on average 15000 miles a year. If we have to and we probably will we could get by on about half that amount of driving. A lot of the world drives less then that so why can't we?
So to get off of oil for transportation we need 125 million volts or similar cars. More or less.
Each Volt uses 12.9 kwh for a charge that will take it 30 miles or doing the math 6450 kwh per year to drive it 15000 miles on electricity. Our present electrical grid is old and at capacity plus or minus safety margins so any major new load on the system will require building enough new capacity to provide it.
A 600 mw power plant typically produces 3,900 giga watt hours of power per year or enough to charge 604,000 Volts if they have no other customers. 125 million divided by 604 thousand gives you a need for 207 new 600 mw power plants or 1.242 million mw of new generating capacity. Your not going to do that with wind ,solar or dump gas.
And that is what it would take to replace half the driving we are doing now so you see your view that EVs are the easy answer just doesn't add up.

[Revi]

There is an answer, but it involves ending the traditional car culture and taking the bus between towns. If we all got NEV's or low speed vehicles and only drove them around town we could cut our mileage by a lot. Maybe 5000 miles a year in a much lighter vehicle. I was in Bar Harbor last summer and a lot of the people who work in restaurants get around in little scooters. They get around 100 mpg and can be parked anywhere. There is a bus to take you to the rest of Mount Desert Island and you can take a long distance bus anywhere, so why have a car? I think we will move towards a model like that soon. Young people will get a job in a resort town, a ski town, etc. and not get a car. Us old fogeys will be stuck in full sized car world and slowly go broke. None of my nephews or nieces have a car. Our kids don't have cars. They are all working all over the world and they don't need one. Car culture is dead already.

[vtsnowedin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Revi', 's')nip.....
....... Car culture is dead already.

[Maddog78]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Revi', 'C')ar culture is dead already.

[Revi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Maddog78', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Revi', 'C')ar culture is dead already.

[Xenophobe]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', ' ')Our present electrical grid is old and at capacity plus or minus safety margins so any major new load on the system will require building enough new capacity to provide it.

[Xenophobe]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Revi', ' ') None of my nephews or nieces have a car. Our kids don't have cars. They are all working all over the world and they don't need one. Car culture is dead already.

[Xenophobe]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Revi', ' ') I figured out that there are only about 280,000 miles left on every vehicle on the planet.

[Revi]

I think a lot of young people are going to think twice before they chain themselves to the car. It is going to make a lot more sense to get around in something else and when they have to go further get a Zip Car or something. Why start the payments? We don't drive as much as we used to, and a third of our driving lately has been electric. I just think that there are lots of people in the US who are perfectly fine without their own car. I know a lot of them live around here. A lot of our culture has been about getting a car and how great it is, so it's hard to see out of that lense, but this is a peak oil website and you might hear this kind of thing around here. After 2014 the car is going to really seem like a millstone. When we start to drop off the plateau they are going to figure out a way to get us out of our cars for good.

[Xenophobe]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Revi', 'I') think a lot of young people are going to think twice before they chain themselves to the car.

[vtsnowedin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Xenophobe', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', ' ')Our present electrical grid is old and at capacity plus or minus safety margins so any major new load on the system will require building enough new capacity to provide it.

[JohnDenver]

The author of this article, Mike Bendzela, posted for a long time here at peakoil.com as a hardcore doomer named "killJOY".
member/killJOY/

[Xenophobe]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JohnDenver', 'T')he author of this article, Mike Bendzela, posted for a long time here at peakoil.com as a hardcore doomer named "killJOY".
member/killJOY/

[Xenophobe]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Xenophobe', '
')Figuring out WHERE the power comes from is easy, take your pick. Coal, nukes, windmills, PV's across rooftops on America are good for 700+ gigawatts, but the real kicker is the difference a smart grid can yield, and that difference is the gap between peak load and normal loading, and how many hours that differential exists.

[Keith_McClary]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Xenophobe', 'Y')eah, after the average American pays $25G's for that average new car, he/she then can't afford to cough up $100/month for the fuel to drive it 1000 miles a month