[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('k_semler', '
')Then wouldn't we have been pointing the rifles towards the inside of the perimeter, instead of out to the road?

[PenultimateManStanding]

So there it is, dream interpretation. You can't look in the back of the book to see if you got it right and there are no experts. Science backed away because its not possible to prove or disprove a statement about what a dream means. Doesn't mean that they can't reveal interesting things though and that's where it stands. Take it or leave it.

[BabyPeanut]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jesus_of_suburbia', 'I') give my three celebrity dreams.
The first one I can recall featured "The Good Girl" and "Chicago" star, John C. Riley. It was a regular high school day, only every so often, John would turn to me and say, "Hey, I'm Kevin." Why he did this multiple times, as well as why he called himself Kevin is unknown to me.

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BabyPeanut', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jesus_of_suburbia', 'I') give my three celebrity dreams.
The first one I can recall featured "The Good Girl" and "Chicago" star, John C. Riley. It was a regular high school day, only every so often, John would turn to me and say, "Hey, I'm Kevin." Why he did this multiple times, as well as why he called himself Kevin is unknown to me.

[PenultimateManStanding]

Constance Newland published Me, Myself, and I about her clinical LSD threapy in the early '60s for treatment of sexual frigity. Quoted by Daniel Pinchbeck in Breaking Open The Head.:

'Through LSD hallucinations, Newland plumbed the depths of her stereotypically Freudian unconscious. Backtracking through early traumas, she learned, "in addition to being, consciously, a loving mother and respectable citizen, I was also, unconsciously, a murderess, a pervert, a cannibal, a sadist and a masochist." These discoveries had a cheering effect on her psychic life. She got rid of her neurosis.'

[EnviroEngr]

There is another way to work this.

One of my root teachers is Namkhai Norbu. He gave me this book to use in the process of developing consistent lucidity: Dream Yoga and the Practice of Natural Light

Here's a little background blurb I ran into recently: We Can Wake Up From Life's Dream While We're Asleep which explains it a bit.

Also, I'm hoping to get to Process Work. Their main website is pretty anemic, but here it is: http://www.processwork.org/FAQ.htm
This paradigm is practically based on dream work. Worth checking out. If I can get Arny, Amy or Max and Co. to write up a better précis, when I get it, I'll put it up.

[PenultimateManStanding]

Some good reading here, enviroman. I like the notion that an important dream will not fade upon awakening. I've had some like that through the years that put me into a great mood that lasted quite a while. Not last night though. Something interesting was going on and I didn't have to do anyhting at all this morning so I could just lie quiet and try to remember. Not much could be resurrected from the fading though . Its true that Freud does seem to drag dreams through the mud. I don't know how much its warranted or justifiable to do that. Somewhat I suppose. No way he has the last word on the subject, that much seems clear to me. (interesting that nothing was going on here and we both posted in the same minute!)

[PenultimateManStanding]

Enviro's post with links to sites with a far more benign view of the meaning and use of dream information raises some points about the Freudian point of view. Now Freud wasn't included in the Great Books series found in probably every library in the US for any small reason. His was a seminal and enormously influential mind and thoughtful, historically minded people ought at least to know what his ideas were about. And they were about a grim view of what human beings carry around in their heads. Is it justified to have such grim notions of what a human is? Never mind what you may think about his theories of dreams and the hypothetical knowledge they bring about human nature, take a look at History and you have your answer. Cannibalism an oddity with no meaning for the rest of us? Homosexuality a genetic fluke that hits a minority? forget about it, says Freud, its there in all of us. Were the Nazis some otherworldly inroad of pure Evil? No, we are all potential Nazis, etc. His researches revealed to him that year old infants fear their fathers will eat them. On and on it goes. You have to read it to believe it and even then you might gag at credulity. The question of course is: IS IT TRUE? (by the way, I would like to thank peakoil.com for this forum as a chance for me to put together such a long vainglorious string of my own thoughts punctuated by sympathetic readers and their contributions)

[GD]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', '(')by the way, I would like to thank peakoil.com for this forum as a chance for me to put together such a long vainglorious string of my own thoughts punctuated by sympathetic readers and their contributions)

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('GD', '
')Happy to punctuate you.
Just a curiosity: are Lucid dreams different to "normal" dreams in that the way they can be interpreted, or does it not matter?

[killJOY]

Last night...
Last night an aircraft punctured the barn roof, exploded.
The plane was still there, smoldering, on the roof.
We were remarking how the beams stayed intact.
There were scorched corpses, frozen in positions bracing for the crash, stacked like firewood along the way as we walked along.
The corpses' legs were taut. Their heads on their knees, hands covering their heads.
They were frozen in this aspect of imminent crach. They were smoldering.
It was odd. They didn't stink .

[PenultimateManStanding]

I had a dream the other night in which I was sitting in a secluded spot provided by my old high school while waiting for my mother to pick me up. I was reading something. My relationship to my mom hasn't been easy but it has been on the mend now for several years and I find she is a benevolent spirit in my dreams. She was there to reassure me that mostly idiots post at peakoil.com and it's time to move on.

[PenultimateManStanding]

Nevermind that last post. I was peeved at all the Christian bashers. Just because you find their beliefs quaint doesn't mean you should mock them. Live and let live. Now, I had a terrific dream last night I would like to share, and this seems to prove Freud wrong on the question of wish-fulfillment being present in all dreams. Perhaps he was only being dogmatic on this point for strategic reasons and knew for himself that it wasn't exactly true. There is evidence to support this idea. Anyway, the dream: first, some background stuff, Mitragyna speciosa aka Kratom, is a tree that grows in Malaysia and Thailand. A tea made of it acts as a mild narcotic and it has been used to cure addictions to opium and alcohol. It produces a feeling of mildly orgasmic tranquility. You can get it legally through the internet. It has a peculiar side effect of causing tickling sensations on the skin. My dream: an order of Kratom came to me in the mail. The box was broken and the bag inside was opened and the leaf spilled and there wasn't as much as there should have been. I was holding the loose spilled shredded leaf in my hand. That's it - that was the dream. I remembered it clearly and thought about it while getting ready for work, having coffee, etc. I was driving on the freeway when I realized what it meant. I used Freud's dictum that it must be a wish fulfillment of some sort but I was puzzled because I was angry in the dream that I had lost some of the Kratom and was planning to call the distributer to make up the difference. So how could it be a wish fulfillment? Then, to my amusement I realized what it was about. The key was in trying to remember what had happenend the day before that night's dream. Usually dreams take their themes from something that happened the day before. Well, I had been substituting a High School senior English class. There had been a cute voluptuous girl in the front row who seemed to like the way I talked. She came to talk to me, asked me my zodiac sign and read my horoscope for me. Now I acted with professionalism of course, but an impression was made on my poor male psyche only to crop up in my dreams. The broken into box was her vagina, and the kratom leaf was her pubic hair in my hands. How is this not a wish fulfillment? The dominant theme of the dream was that I had been shortchanged, I didn't get all the leaf I had sent for. That of couse was the reality of the situation I had experienced in class that day. So rather than being a wish fulfilled, it was actually a reflection upon the reality of wishes denied. My dream was an attempt to reconcile me to reality rather than a wish fulfillment. In other words, perhaps young people have only wish fulfillment dreams, but older people make other uses of their dreams. Note that Freud insists that id impulses rule in dreams and that the reality principle is a part of our waking rational minds. My dream would seem to suggest that the rational reality principle can extend into night dreams.

[PenultimateManStanding]

I told this dream and its meaning to the amnokave coworker today. I tend to talk too loud because of deafness and my coworkers know about my prowess at interpreting dreams.. I think I embarrassed them, the waitresses, because their ears perk up when I mention dreams. C'est la vie.

[uNkNowN ElEmEnt]

I had a dream the other night. A flyer was in the mail, survey like, asking people to sign up to adopt a senior. Taht's all there was. I saw it in with the rest of the mail and then my dream changed.

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('uNkNowN ElEmEnt', 'I') had a dream the other night. A flyer was in the mail, survey like, asking people to sign up to adopt a senior. Taht's all there was. I saw it in with the rest of the mail and then my dream changed.

[PenultimateManStanding]

Unknown Element, my guess is that you have not hit menopause yet? A note about being nice to old people in your mailbox could be something you are trying to work out about what's coming (if I'm right)

[PenultimateManStanding]

mailbox = womb. How do you feel about old women and how do you picture yourself as one? It's something to sort out. Like I said about my last dream, they don't neccessarily mean wish fulfillment. Sometimes there's work to be done while we sleep. That's my theory anyway.

[uNkNowN ElEmEnt]

I was a very troubled youth. it blew everyones mind that even though I stole cars, skipped school to go 4x4ing, got in lots of fights, I was a regular volunteer at the old folks home in town.

my feelings for old people have no relection what so ever on how I feel about my parents. I will never live in the same house as my parents again so adopting one of them won't happen. this is interresting because my father who has always needed someone to take care of him is going to be single again soon. his wife is dying (for the 4th time in a year). but he and I talk maybe twice a year, not the kind of relationship to do the dependant parent thing.

I haven't hit menopause yet and don't look my age. I don't really care what age I am, if it weren't for my 8 year old reminding me occasionally, I'd totally forget (as I ususally do). I've faced death more times than I'm sure anyone here would care to know, and that isn't a big enough fear to be coming out in my subconscious.

I don't remember what the dream changed to after. but this little part stuck with me. curious.

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('uNkNowN ElEmEnt', ' ')
I don't remember what the dream changed to after. but this little part stuck with me. curious.