Donate Bitcoin

Donate Paypal


PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

THE Debt & Peak Oil Thread (merged)

Discussions about the economic and financial ramifications of PEAK OIL

Re: Go into debt NOW!

Postby Roccland » Wed 25 Jul 2007, 20:50:31

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MattSavinar', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Roccland', '
')
Having said that - TPTB will not have the man-power to roll out martial law.



Well then they'll hit us with the bioweapons, which will wipe out most of us, and then follow that up by unleashing the terminator robots to conduct cleanup operations so any of us who survived don't make it to their underground cities.

That's assumming they don't just drop nukes.

I still think it's unwise to go into debt.


Well then...it does not really matter if one is in debt or not ...eh Matt?...so why would it not be wise again?
500 MPH into a brick wall - me
User avatar
Roccland
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1604
Joined: Sat 16 Jun 2007, 03:00:00

Re: Go into debt NOW!

Postby Roccland » Wed 25 Jul 2007, 20:52:16

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Hawkcreek', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') still think it's unwise to go into debt.

From a moral standpoint, you are correct. But for those who don't see ripping off the financial system as immoral, it may be a good idea, if you really believe the world is going to collapse.
In fact, it is almost immoral to not back up a firm belief with action.
Go to Costco and max out your credit cards on staples, and then when TSHTF, you can barter some of it to pay off your cards.
If it doesn't HTF, then at least you have taken a moral stand.
If you don't do this, you don't really believe in the coming COLLAPSE.


A moral standpoint??

Ask yourself that when you are carving up asscheek to feed your family...if you make it that far.
500 MPH into a brick wall - me
User avatar
Roccland
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1604
Joined: Sat 16 Jun 2007, 03:00:00

Re: Go into debt NOW!

Postby Hawkcreek » Wed 25 Jul 2007, 21:01:48

--
Last edited by Hawkcreek on Sun 19 Aug 2007, 22:02:46, edited 1 time in total.
Hawkcreek
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 1468
Joined: Sun 15 Aug 2004, 03:00:00
Location: Washington State

Re: Go into debt NOW!

Postby MattSavinar » Wed 25 Jul 2007, 21:08:21

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Roccland', '
')
A moral standpoint??

Ask yourself that when you are carving up asscheek to feed your family...if you make it that far.



Forget "ROTFLMAO", I'm laughing so hard I'm crying. "carving up asscheek".
User avatar
MattSavinar
Elite
Elite
 
Posts: 1918
Joined: Sun 09 May 2004, 03:00:00
Top

Re: Go into debt NOW!

Postby Roccland » Wed 25 Jul 2007, 21:27:35

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Hawkcreek', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')sk yourself that when you are carving up asscheek to feed your family...if you make it that far.

It will probably be the asscheek of some unprepared city dweller like you. Stay in shape - I like mine lean.


Unprepared?

Now that is ROTFLMAO!!!!!

Too funny bro...unprepared...BWHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Dude I have nuked 2 marriages...countless girlfriends...have my kids call me paranoid...on this path of "preparedness"...have zero friends except in cyber world (actually just had a phone call today from "Steam Cannon" here and have talked with "Ayoob" on the phone a few months ago from here)

...complete psycho behavior on my part...like, "hi my name is richard and I am a peaker" (group says at once..."hiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii Richard")

(I digress)

Bunker IN GROUND...filled to the brim with every piece of doomer crap I can get my hands on over the past 5 years...have read Jay Hanson's dieoff.org TWICE EVERY ARTICLE and working on the third time...garden in the ground producing food (actually quite nice this season- the first 5 seasons have been learning plots...)

Then again I might just die of a cardiac laughing at shit posted here...like "UNPREPARED".

Did you really just say that...??

Bwhahahahahahahahahaha!!!
500 MPH into a brick wall - me
User avatar
Roccland
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1604
Joined: Sat 16 Jun 2007, 03:00:00
Top

Re: Go into debt NOW!

Postby Hawkcreek » Wed 25 Jul 2007, 21:28:39

--
Last edited by Hawkcreek on Sun 19 Aug 2007, 21:51:48, edited 1 time in total.
Hawkcreek
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 1468
Joined: Sun 15 Aug 2004, 03:00:00
Location: Washington State

Re: Go into debt NOW!

Postby Hawkcreek » Wed 25 Jul 2007, 21:32:35

--
Last edited by Hawkcreek on Sun 19 Aug 2007, 21:50:29, edited 1 time in total.
Hawkcreek
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 1468
Joined: Sun 15 Aug 2004, 03:00:00
Location: Washington State

Re: Go into debt NOW!

Postby MattSavinar » Wed 25 Jul 2007, 22:37:55

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Roccland', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Hawkcreek', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')sk yourself that when you are carving up asscheek to feed your family...if you make it that far.

It will probably be the asscheek of some unprepared city dweller like you. Stay in shape - I like mine lean.


Unprepared?

Now that is ROTFLMAO!!!!!

Too funny bro...unprepared...BWHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Dude I have nuked 2 marriages...countless girlfriends...have my kids call me paranoid...on this path of "preparedness"...have zero friends except in cyber world (actually just had a phone call today from "Steam Cannon" here and have talked with "Ayoob" on the phone a few months ago from here)

...complete psycho behavior on my part...like, "hi my name is richard and I am a peaker" (group says at once..."hiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii Richard")

(I digress)

Bunker IN GROUND...filled to the brim with every piece of doomer crap I can get my hands on over the past 5 years...have read Jay Hanson's dieoff.org TWICE EVERY ARTICLE and working on the third time...garden in the ground producing food (actually quite nice this season- the first 5 seasons have been learning plots...)

Then again I might just die of a cardiac laughing at shit posted here...like "UNPREPARED".

Did you really just say that...??

Bwhahahahahahahahahaha!!!


Dude, relax. I;m doing exactly the same as you are. The diff is my "bunker" isn't going to be in the ground. At this point it's looking like it will be some tents next to a hippie farm that has fallen into disarray. Best I can do on short notice. If I had decades to prepare, things would be different.
http://www.peakoil.org
User avatar
MattSavinar
Elite
Elite
 
Posts: 1918
Joined: Sun 09 May 2004, 03:00:00
Top

Debt under Peak Oil

Postby kublikhan » Tue 06 Nov 2007, 23:31:58

I have read several articles that say it is a good idea to be debt free in order to prepare for peak oil. Often those same sources will say we will have rampant inflation, or even hyperinflation. Under hyperinflation, debts will quickly become easy to pay off. So why would I want to pay off all of my debts now? Would it not be better to have many tangible assets under such a crisis, along with a debt load that will be inflated away very quickly? Rather than few assets and no debt load?

Also, if an economic collapse is coming, and I prepare for it by paying down my debts and living miserly now, am I not depriving myself of the last few years of prosperity that is possible by cheap oil? Would it not be better to enjoy this prosperity while it lasts?
User avatar
kublikhan
Master Prognosticator
Master Prognosticator
 
Posts: 5064
Joined: Tue 06 Nov 2007, 04:00:00
Location: Illinois

Re: Debt under Peak Oil

Postby BleakToil » Tue 06 Nov 2007, 23:43:35

It's quickly looking like "years" may be optimistic. So get that car, trip, mortgage or whatever it is that you want. Rack up some big debts but make sure you make them count - get a new tool set or how-to library instead of a plasma TV.
User avatar
BleakToil
Wood
Wood
 
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed 31 Oct 2007, 03:00:00
Location: My own personal ground zero.

Re: Debt under Peak Oil

Postby Revi » Tue 06 Nov 2007, 23:45:43

I think you should use the next few years to get ready for peak oil. Yes, you could put your money into things that will go up and pay your debt off in that. The value of the dollar is sure to keep going down for a while. I wouldn't borrow money for anything but land or an education. Everything else either pay cash or do without it.

Just my opinion.
Deep in the mud and slime of things, even there, something sings.
User avatar
Revi
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 7417
Joined: Mon 25 Apr 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Maine

Re: Debt under Peak Oil

Postby Micki » Wed 07 Nov 2007, 02:56:30

It is about managing risks.

-Can you handle increase in interest rates or are your assumption purely based on scenario of dropping rates?
- Can you handle other costs going up ?
- What if you loose your current source of income?
- Are you confident you can manage any investments you have?

Paying off debt also lowers your monthly living cost, so that you can put aside more money for investements (Read Silver, Gold and select energy stocks)
Micki
 

Re: Debt under Peak Oil

Postby IslandCrow » Wed 07 Nov 2007, 03:32:33

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Micki', 'I')t is about managing risks.

- What if you loose your current source of income?

Paying off debt also lowers your monthly living cost,


I would like to underline what Micki wrote. Yes inflation should reduce the value of debt payments unless interest rates shoot up. (In 1990 I was paying a low rate of 12,5% for a house loan!), but in economic slow down will my job last?

In my case I would expect that my job would last, but only on the condition of a major reduction in salary [this is assuming a recession not a collapse of civilization]. For me the risk assessment is will the the reduced salary be enough to cover the loan repayments and all the other inflation raised prices. In part the answer depends on how soon will things collapse after I take the loan.
We should teach our children the 4-Rs: Reduce, Reuse, Recycle and Rejoice.
User avatar
IslandCrow
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1272
Joined: Mon 12 Sep 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Finland
Top

Re: Debt under Peak Oil

Postby kokoda » Wed 07 Nov 2007, 09:21:41

The great thing about Peak Oil is that all debt will be forgiven.

If you buy a car and can't keep up the repayments ... what are they going to do about it? Cars aren't much good if nobody can afford to put fuel in them. They may as well just let you keep it. Even if it is prepossessed just go to the repo auction and buy it back. It will be selling for a song.

Lose your house? Not a problem ... go squat in a McMansion. There will be plenty of empty real estate in the suburbs. Electrical goods need electricity ... otherwise they are just paper weights.

Debt will be the least of your worries when it all hits the fan.
User avatar
kokoda
Coal
Coal
 
Posts: 440
Joined: Thu 24 Aug 2006, 03:00:00

Re: Debt under Peak Oil

Postby EnergyUnlimited » Wed 07 Nov 2007, 09:51:43

What if you dont get that hyperinflation, what you are hoping for, but just off the mill sizable inflation in range of 40 - 60% per year and banks will have enough time to react on that.
What if those who are unable to pay their debt are deemed by your new brave government to be unpatriotic bastards and dealt with accordingly.
You might end up pretty miserable under that scenario.
User avatar
EnergyUnlimited
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 7537
Joined: Mon 15 May 2006, 03:00:00

Re: Debt under Peak Oil

Postby kublikhan » Wed 07 Nov 2007, 14:02:41

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Micki', 'I')t is about managing risks.

-Can you handle increase in interest rates or are your assumption purely based on scenario of dropping rates?
- Can you handle other costs going up ?
- What if you loose your current source of income?
- Are you confident you can manage any investments you have?

Paying off debt also lowers your monthly living cost, so that you can put aside more money for investements (Read Silver, Gold and select energy stocks)


I have investments in Silver, Gold, and energy stocks. They are doing really well right now. I make more money on my investments than I lose on my mortgage(its fixed at a low rate). I can sell all of them and pay off the mortgage, but that would seem to be a mistake in my opinion. I would lose that inflating asset(my investments), and I would lose my debt that acts as a hedge by inflating down at the same time.

If I ever lose my job, I can always sell the investments at a later date and pay off the mortgage.
User avatar
kublikhan
Master Prognosticator
Master Prognosticator
 
Posts: 5064
Joined: Tue 06 Nov 2007, 04:00:00
Location: Illinois
Top

Re: Debt under Peak Oil

Postby SpringCreekFarm » Wed 07 Nov 2007, 14:18:09

I think the best position to be in is to be debt free no matter what the future holds. I worked really hard to get that way and now that I don't have any loan or mortgage payments, I put the amount of my payments away as savings.
SpringCreekFarm
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 936
Joined: Fri 03 Mar 2006, 04:00:00
Location: Canada

Re: Debt under Peak Oil

Postby kublikhan » Wed 07 Nov 2007, 14:37:28

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SpringCreekFarm', 'I') think the best position to be in is to be debt free no matter what the future holds. I worked really hard to get that way and now that I don't have any loan or mortgage payments, I put the amount of my payments away as savings.


Rampant inflation can destroy your savings in a matter of years, perhaps months. Hyperinflation can destroy savings in a matter of hours.
User avatar
kublikhan
Master Prognosticator
Master Prognosticator
 
Posts: 5064
Joined: Tue 06 Nov 2007, 04:00:00
Location: Illinois
Top

Re: Debt under Peak Oil

Postby FoolYap » Wed 07 Nov 2007, 14:53:09

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kokoda', 'T')he great thing about Peak Oil is that all debt will be forgiven.

If you buy a car and can't keep up the repayments ... what are they going to do about it? Cars aren't much good if nobody can afford to put fuel in them.


That sounds like extremely wishful thinking to me, not A Plan. Even if the car is worth only pennies on the dollar to the loan value, you can bet the bank is going to want those pennies from you.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')hey may as well just let you keep it. Even if it is prepossessed just go to the repo auction and buy it back. It will be selling for a song.


If you can't keep up with the payments, what are you going to use to buy it back?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'L')ose your house? Not a problem ... go squat in a McMansion. There will be plenty of empty real estate in the suburbs. Electrical goods need electricity ... otherwise they are just paper weights.


Those McMansions will be bought at firesale prices by people with cash, and rented out. Or, they will stand empty and rot. Good luck finding an empty one in good condition that you can squat in on any permanent basis.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'D')ebt will be the least of your worries when it all hits the fan.


If the country becomes a Mad Max dystopia, maybe. But if it becomes merely a severely depressionary place, you can expect the Powers That Be to remain in power long into the decline. Look at severely depressed inner cities, like Detroit. People out of work, losing their houses, and are they squatting for free? Or are the repo men still repo'ing, and the sheriffs still evicting and locking up the empty houses?

--Steve
User avatar
FoolYap
Coal
Coal
 
Posts: 472
Joined: Sun 04 Sep 2005, 03:00:00
Location: central MA, USA
Top

Re: Debt under Peak Oil

Postby SpringCreekFarm » Wed 07 Nov 2007, 15:15:12

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kublikhan', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SpringCreekFarm', 'I') think the best position to be in is to be debt free no matter what the future holds. I worked really hard to get that way and now that I don't have any loan or mortgage payments, I put the amount of my payments away as savings.


Rampant inflation can destroy your savings in a matter of years, perhaps months. Hyperinflation can destroy savings in a matter of hours.


So are you suggesting it is therfore better to be in debt and owe principal and interest rather than saving up for the stuff we need?

I think I'll save my money SHORT TERM and spend it on preparations like I had in mind.

If hyperinflation occurs, we're fucked anyway. So what is your point?
SpringCreekFarm
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 936
Joined: Fri 03 Mar 2006, 04:00:00
Location: Canada
Top

PreviousNext

Return to Economics & Finance

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron