[Cloud9]

As with subscribing to any ideology, at some point reason has to be suspended. The cash for clunkers is a faith based movement.

Meanwhile the Chinese are going to start turning out hummers for their growing middle class..

[the48thronin]

please excuse me for simply quoting myself on anothr site where this is being discussed..

begin quote

In the 2 plus 2 catagory...

The government bails out the auto companies and ends up owning a large percentage of the auto company ( in our name of course).

The government makes a huge 4500$ grant available to anyone who buys a car from the huge overstock of unsold cars that broke the auto companies in the first place.

The government discusses the lack of price rise in the shares of the auto companies they own delaying the chance to sell at a profit some of the shares they forced the auto companies to give them in forced federal bankruptcy court.


HMMMMM

And back to the original post The terms of service when a car dealer or interested person logs into the cars.gov system to access that "free money".

maybe my tinfoil hat needs to come out of the closet? The coincidences are too pat for me.

Let me see our government has thanks to an election been taken control of completely by dedicated true believers in the righteousness of their cause, Government control to effect transfer of wealth in the name of fairness to the 'oppressed" as exercised by the elite who believe only they have the intellect and beliefs to effect true reform of a bad system...

[the48thronin]

and further down in the same thread a post i think is appropriate to quote

begin quote Going to the two political extremes, daily KOS and info wars. I found the screen shot that is claimed to have existed on info wars, and a statement that stopped my search on KOS

Here first is the screen shot from info wars. Photo (large)
and then the stopper on KOS $this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')This is the dealer area of the website. It has nothing to do with the consumer at all. You have to have a username and password to get as far as Glenn got (and I wonder where he got those?)
The only way to get a username and password is to submit the tax identification number, franchise number and authorization code OF YOUR CAR DEALERSHIP!
Beware the lollipop of mediocrity: lick it once and suck forever.

[timmac]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('the48thronin', 'T')he question are not answered, they just keep making my tin foil hat look more and more useful!

[lordoverhack]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('the48thronin', 'T')he question are not answered, they just keep making my tin foil hat look more and more useful! ( I see this picture used a lot in forums I visit, this is my first time to use it myself.. from nastyboys wordpress)

[Grimnir]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Hoops_Mckann', 'I') am sure someone on here knows the break even point for fuel/pollution saved vs. the resources needed to manufacture a new car.

[JJ]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('timmac', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('the48thronin', 'T')he question are not answered, they just keep making my tin foil hat look more and more useful!

[timmac]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JJ', 's')ome people are seeing empty shelves. Timmac doesn't.

[TreeFarmer]

I'm going to make a case that in the long run Cash for Clunkers will hurt the poor.

Cash for Clunkers is a government program where the government uses our money to subsidize the purchase of a new car by $4500 if you trade in a car that gets poor gas mileage. However, the problem with this program is that they then destroy the engine of the traded-in car.

One thing we need to consider is the type of person that can actually afford a new car at this time. That person is very likely to be in the upper half of the income distribution and looking to upgrade transportation on the cheap. That person is much less likely to be in the lower half of the income distribution and definitley not in the bottom 25% where the poor are. So what is happening, the upper 50% is where most of this "stimulus" will end up going. The bottom 50% and definitely the bottom 25% will get almost none of this stimulus.

Since the bottom 25% can't afford new cars what do they drive? Used cars. But the used car supply is being artifically destroyed becase these trade-ins are being destroyed. When you combine this with the fact that new car sales over the last year have been below the replacement rate what you get is a looming shortage of used cars and thus an increase in the price of used cars. Once again, who buys those used cars? The poor.

One personal fact that I have to back this up is that a used car I bought in May for 18.6K is now valued at 19.5K.

This will turn out to be primairly a disguised stimulus for the auto industry and, like a lot of "programs" a hit to the poor.

TF

[waegari]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TreeFarmer', 'I')'m going to make a case that in the long run Cash for Clunkers will hurt the poor.

[vision-master]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TreeFarmer', 'I')'m going to make a case that in the long run Cash for Clunkers will hurt the poor. --snip-- This will turn out to be primairly a disguised stimulus for the auto industry and, like a lot of "programs" a hit to the poor.

[eosada]

Also, that trade-in is most likely owned out-right, no lien. So, you just created a brand new debt slave with a brand new auto loan.

Additionally the trade-in is destroyed, removing potentially new salvage parts from the market ... causing higher repair bills for those that can't afford to replace the old clunker.

Unintended consequences I guess.

[basil_hayden]

I'm waiting for the "Dollars for Doomstead" program.

[vision-master]

Seeing how my 2000 Monte has only 45,000 miles on her, I hope I'm good for another 8 to 9 years. I'm glad I went from 20 mpg (small truck) to 30 mpg (Monte).

[UncleRay]

I have a few questions about "cash for clunkers"

Do buyers pay sticker price for the new car? How/when do they get the rebate?

Does the buyer pay sales tax on the gross sale or after the rebate is deducted?

Does the buyer pay income tax on the rebate?

Do the dealers get the clunker for free? Do they sell it for scrap? Must the dealer disable the engine or the scrap yard?

It's been said auto dealers usually make most of their profit on the trade-in car. So are they losing money in the long run?

[dunewalker]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TreeFarmer', 'I')'m going to make a case that in the long run Cash for Clunkers will hurt the poor...
Since the bottom 25% can't afford new cars what do they drive? Used cars. But the used car supply is being artifically destroyed becase these trade-ins are being destroyed. When you combine this with the fact that new car sales over the last year have been below the replacement rate what you get is a looming shortage of used cars and thus an increase in the price of used cars. Once again, who buys those used cars? The poor.

One personal fact that I have to back this up is that a used car I bought in May for 18.6K is now valued at 19.5K.TF

[eastbay]

In the USA there are somewhere around 263,000,000 cars of which 40% or just over 100,000,000 are more than ten years old. A clunker must be at least nine years old to qualify.

News reports claim around 250,000 clunkers were traded in with the first billion, and another 1/2 million clunkers will be traded in with the next two billion. That means 750,000 used cars will be permanently taken off the road. And 750,000 new cars placed on the road, of course.

That's a removal of less than one percent of the +9 year old cars. Will that alter the used parts market in the future? Maybe, but not by very much.

[vision-master]

Yeah, almost $20,000 for used car?

Sausage burner?

[PrestonSturges]

We have an old van that would qualify but just put $2000 in repairs into it.....

[Tanada]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('UncleRay', 'I') have a few questions about "cash for clunkers"

Do buyers pay sticker price for the new car? How/when do they get the rebate?

Does the buyer pay sales tax on the gross sale or after the rebate is deducted?

Does the buyer pay income tax on the rebate?

Do the dealers get the clunker for free? Do they sell it for scrap? Must the dealer disable the engine or the scrap yard?

It's been said auto dealers usually make most of their profit on the trade-in car. So are they losing money in the long run?