[frankthetank]

That may be true, but at least i can see something for my money. Happy old ladies driving their Buicks with wallets full of SS money is better then billionaire bankers driving yachts full of gold bars...

I've come to the conclusion that it doesn't matter what side your on, they'll do what they want, without regards to what the sheep think. We are sheep. Sheep. Baaahhh... Keep at it... good little sheep.

I smell mutton.

[kublikhan]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('frankthetank', 'T')hat may be true, but at least i can see something for my money. Happy old ladies driving their Buicks with wallets full of SS money is better then billionaire bankers driving yachts full of gold bars...

I've come to the conclusion that it doesn't matter what side your on, they'll do what they want, without regards to what the sheep think. We are sheep. Sheep. Baaahhh... Keep at it... good little sheep.

I smell mutton.

[Javaman]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ReverseEngineer', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Javaman', 'I') call the bailout [s]a pittance compared to[/s] orders of magnitude greater than the amount I have sent to the government in the form of Social Security "contributions," for example. That is money I might never see again. I would rather have it to save and invest.
Banks are necessary to keep [s]any decent economy functioning[/s] stealing as much money as possible from hard working Americans to give to Pigmen. Even Democratic politicians can understand that, but probably very few [s]of their voters[/s] brainwashed conservative syncophantic lapdogs of the plutocaracy can.

[Javaman]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('frankthetank', 'T')hat may be true, but at least i can see something for my money. Happy old ladies driving their Buicks with wallets full of SS money is better then billionaire bankers driving yachts full of gold bars...

I've come to the conclusion that it doesn't matter what side your on, they'll do what they want, without regards to what the sheep think. We are sheep. Sheep. Baaahhh... Keep at it... good little sheep.

I smell mutton.

[AgentR]

Javaman... money only has value when people believe that there is a limited supply of it, with some relatively stable value per unit.

That belief keeps getting chipped away at.

Those that control how much of it there is, have also loaned and committed to liabilities in the tens of trillions of dollars, and no indicated intention of matching those liabilities with assets.

[Javaman]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR', 'J')avaman... money only has value when people believe that there is a limited supply of it, with some relatively stable value per unit.

That belief keeps getting chipped away at.

Those that control how much of it there is, have also loaned and committed to liabilities in the tens of trillions of dollars, and no indicated intention of matching those liabilities with assets.

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')b]Mervyns tells employees they can't withdraw all their 401(k) funds
Mervyns has temporarily stopped workers from freely withdrawing money from their 401(k) plans, the latest blow to employees who are losing their jobs as the bankrupt retailer shuts down all its stores.
The decision raises questions about workers' access to their retirement funds, a critical safety net with the stock market in turmoil and the economy mired in its worst recession in decades. In a notice to employees this week, Mervyns said it was temporarily blocking employees from cashing out their 401(k) funds. "Due to the current economic climate, not all of the 401(k) funds are available for immediate liquidation," the company said. "My first reaction was: 'You're kidding me? That's my money.' They're saying we can't touch that because they don't have the money," said Joni Hill, a longtime manager at the Mervyns in Santa Rosa Plaza.

With unemployment looming, Hill wanted to pull money out of her retirement plan to pay off debt and help with living expenses. She already is cleaning houses part time, but is uncertain about job prospects with the economy in recession. Mervyns filed for bankruptcy in July and announced plans in October to shut down all of its stores after the holidays, including its outlets in Santa Rosa and Petaluma. Federal regulators are following Mervyns' handling of its retirement plan but would not comment on whether they are investigating.

Under federal law, employers sponsoring 401(k) plans are required to separate employee contributions from company funds, either placing the money in a trust or insurance contract.
Link

[RdSnt]

So as the fraud of more and more companies is revealed, that they didn't put their share of the money in retirement funds, anger grows and more extreme action is taken. Do not be the least surprised when a panic'd employee takes a gun to company owners.
The fuse is well burnt.

[Sixstrings]

Yeah, lots of folks are going to get screwed. These two stories I've posted today.. the Chicago factory laying everyone off without paying the workers. This retail chain laying everyone off, most likely little to no severance, and then having the gall to sit on the 401ks.

From what I gather, it sounds like the company comingled the 401k funds. That's pretty darn rich right there.

[BigTex]

It's not really possible to commingle 401(k) funds with company funds other than the most recent one or two payroll periods.

401(k) funds are required to be held in trust and the trustees are independent of the employer and would be required to report this sort of thing to the IRS immediately or potentially be liable for the lost funds.

I suspect it is something more along the lines of employer stock in 401(k) accounts (which would obviously be more difficult to liquidate for a company in bankruptcy).

There are plenty of retirement plan shenanigans to talk about, but this type of situation involving commingling of 401(k) accounts is very rare.

[forbin]

pension funds are there for the manager to use and abuse

I haven't fogotton Captain bob , robert maxwell .

corruption then - corruption now

difference today is the pirates own/run the government !

Forbin,

so when do the prosecutions start ?

[pup55]

This sort of thing happened in the 80's all the time, and in fact, the (at the time) overfunded pension plans of some corporations were used as a source of funding in a lot of the LBO's that were happening in the 1980-86 era of the big buyouts.

But at that time, the pension plans were an asset on the books of that company (if they were in excess of the amount expected to be needed to fund the pension). In this cast it is clear that there is a problem with either some of the funds that Mervyn's was supposed to have transferred into these accounts, or as someone suggested above, the fact that the fund administrator is hard pressed to liquidate some of these "assets" in the current market, in other words, they are sitting on some of the famous questionable investments we all know about, and cannot get their "money" out of it.

This amounts to a run on the fund administrator, who is Hewitt Associates of Lincolnshire, Ill, who cannot come up with the green.

Someone is going to jail on this.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'D')uring February 2008, issues in the global credit and capital markets led to failed auctions with respect to our ARS. During the
second, third and fourth quarter, all of our outstanding ARS were subject to failed auctions. During the third and fourth quarter, $8.0
million of our ARS issues were called at par. At September 30, 2008, our ARS portfolio had a fair value of $124.5 million and a par
value of $131.5 million. We used a discounted cash flow model to determine the estimated fair value of our ARS at September 30,
2008. As a result, we determined that there was a reduction in the fair value of our ARS and recorded an unrealized loss of $6.9
million ($4.3 million net of tax) within other comprehensive income, a component of stockholders’ equity

[BigTex]

As many of you know, I am a pension attorney, so this is one of the few topics I feel qualified to comment on as something more than an informed observer.

I will be very surprised if this Mervyn's thing turns into anything significant.

I see stuff that doesn't smell right every day when it comes to retirement plan activities, but the sort of thing that Mervyn's is doing is not uncommon and does not suggest to me that anything is wrong.

When a company is in bankruptcy, and especially if employer stock was an investment option in the 401(k) plan, there is often a delay in making distributions, but it is typically to make sure that all of the money that was supposed to go into the plan made it into the plan, since tracking people down afterward to make small distributions is difficult and expensive.

This may be something other than that, but I work with clients all the time who do this sort of thing, and it is pretty standard practice.

As for Hewitt's financials, the finances of the company are not especially relevant. They are providing administrative services, but the assets are held in trust, and would not be subject to the claims of Hewitt creditors any more than they would be subject to the claims of Mervyn's creditors.

The situation with overfunded pension plan assets in the 1980s was a source of abuse (as depicted in the movie "Wall Street"), but the ability to do those things was addressed by the imposition of a 100% excise tax on the use of overfunded pension plan assets in those types of transactions, which completely stopped it from happening.

Retirement plan assets are for the most part pretty safe, other than employer stock in 401(k) plans. Even underfunded retirement plans are guaranteed by the U.S. government, and a complete bailout of the retirement plan system would cost a whole lot less than what the government has already shown it is willing to spend on all of the bailouts we have seen in recent weeks.

[pup55]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 't')he finances of the company are not especially relevant. They are providing administrative services

[BigTex]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pup55', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 't')he finances of the company are not especially relevant. They are providing administrative services

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'C')ost Reductions: FedEx has already taken actions to reduce over $1 billion of expenses for all of fiscal 2009, including:

Elimination of variable compensation payouts
Hiring freeze
Volume-related reductions in labor hours and line-haul expenses
Discretionary spending cuts
Personnel reductions at FedEx Freight and FedEx Office
FedEx is now implementing a number of additional cost reduction initiatives to mitigate the effects of deteriorating business conditions, including:

Base salary decreases, effective January 1, 2009:
20% reduction for FedEx Corp. CEO Frederick W. Smith
7.5%-10.0% reduction for other senior FedEx executives
5.0% reduction for remaining U.S. salaried exempt personnel
Elimination of calendar 2009 merit-based salary increases for U.S. salaried exempt personnel

Suspension of 401(k) company matching contributions for a minimum of one year, effective February 1, 2009
These additional actions are expected to reduce expenses by $200 million during the remainder of fiscal 2009 and approximately $600 million in fiscal 2010. In addition to these actions, each operating company is evaluating other measures should business conditions further deteriorate.
http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/081218/20081218005200.html?.v=1

[GoghGoner]

Does anybody know what percentage of money invested in the stock market are 401k investments? I googled this before and couldn't find anything...

[jdmartin]

Well at least they're kickin' it out on the higher-pay people on the salaries instead of just shittin' on the line workers only like they usually would...

[eastbay]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jdmartin', 'W')ell at least they're kickin' it out on the higher-pay people on the salaries instead of just shittin' on the line workers only like they usually would...

[DJSNOLA]

The new facility may be more advanced and efficient than an older one. It could be a replacement for an older facility and help cut costs? Just an idea!