[o2ny]

The endless and pervasive din of advertising and consumerism in this culture we live in has conditioned almost all of this to think and feel, down to our core, that there is something missing in our lives; that we are not complete human beings; that we are 'defective' unless we own this or that; and that there is this great void in our lives we must fill. People try to fill this perceived void with various things 'out there'- food, sex, hard substances, relationships, money- or shopping. While these may fill the void temporarily, the feeling of emptiness always returns, usually asking that you obtain even more 'stuff' the next time.

In my experience, the only way around this is to come to an understanding that you are not defined by what you own, or how much money you make, or who you are sleeping with, etc. Your wife is likely feeling pangs of the collective 'identity crisis' that we all share as humans living in this time period, and shopping is the way it has manifested for her.

I don't think there is anything wrong with her (or you, as other posts are indicating) and splitting up your finances will just alienate her and create unnecessary tension in your marriage. If you're committed to the relationship, I think the first thing to do is try to accept the situation as it is without immediately thinking about 'fixing' it- please don't panic or do anything rash... maybe for now just tell her from the heart that all this spending really concerns you.

[nero]

A few suggestions:

Start to move every 6 month without the help of movers. An expensive solution I admit but it's a sure fire way to become a minimalist.

Move to a smaller house. When you don't have space for the junk it's much easier to just say no.

Introduce her to the wonderful world of auctions and garage sales. Yes it's still buying stuff but the fun is in the hunt and the rush of acquisition is huge. (I feel like I just recommended crack to an addict)

[LadyRuby]

This is curious, and I'm sure it must be frustrating. Afterall, she's affecting not only herself here.

I wonder what's going on with her. Is this a distraction for her? The next thing to get to make her happy? Maybe she needs to find a new distraction. I'm sure she can recognize that none of these "things" ever lives up to her dreams (i.e., she gets a lot of satisfaction and joy from these "new things" but it's relatively short-lived.... soon she needs another "fix").

I agree with whoever said it, that she needs to have her own account that she can spend at will and you can't say anything about it. But negotiate what will be in that account. What can you live with? And don't dip into other accounts for a shopping spree to the U.S. (sounds awful to me).

[threadbear]

You don't understand women. And you're way way too "nice" Tell her if she continues to betray you by spending you both into poverty, you will start looking for a partner who is more sympatico, as that is a clear indicator that she doesn't care about the relationship. She'll yada yada yada about you calling all the shots. Tell her to stfu. Btw, I am a woman and know how I would hope to be treated if I so abused someone's love and trust.

For God's sakes, quit being so nice. Women are tough as hell and CAN deal with reality, just like you.

[Longsword]

Thanks again for all the answers. I genuinely appreciate them.

For me, the really encouraging messages were the ones where others told how they had dealt with the similar situation that I face.

I personally believe her spending is very much influenced by the culture around her, and that there is much I can do if I am active about this. I don't think he will ever share my caution about the future of the world's energy, but that does not mean that we can find no common ground on this. I have to at least, try, I am committed to our relationship.

Gotta say I like threadbear's soution. Being a woman, she probably reads the situation better than the men

[crapattack]

Longsword, I am no psychoanalysist but when I did my MA in Psychology we covered addiction quite extensively. Shopping addiction has similar features to any addiction, but often occurs more in women. People can get addicted to almost anything if we are inclined to, and we usually use whatever we are addicted to as a substitute for something else. Often these relationships are extremely complex. Feelings of despair and depression can lead to addicitive behaviours that give us short-term satisfaction but are followed by feelings of helplessness, guilt, sadness and depression again. This is often a physical (neurochemical) and emotional attachment, and may be accompanied one or more other addictive behaviours such as abusing perscription drugs, alcholism, sex addiction and others. Addiction is often referred to as a cycle since addicts feel anxiety, are down and engage in the behaviour, then feel good, then bad, then seek to feel good again, do the behaviour, feel good and so on. Eventually it doesn't feel good anymore, but they feel powerless to stop.

When we attempt to get off an addition without a subsitute we almost always go back because there is nothing to replace what the addition was doing for us. The object becomes a key to our lock, and in a very real sense we are training our brains to become more sensitive to the neurochemical rush every time we satisfy our craving.

The good news is you can defeat addiction begining with admitting you have a problem and having the willingness to change. Unfortunately, the only person who can do this is the addict.

Often supporters unknowingly 'enable' the addiction, and sometimes this enabling behaviour can be quite tricky to spot. If she can equate you with any part of the addiction, ie: source of money, then she will continue to work you and will not stop until she recieves satisfaction. This is the really hard part about addiction. It doesn't mean she doesn't love you, it means she will use anyone and anything to get what she desires. If she learns you will support her shopping sprees then she will know you aren't a barrier to obtaining what she wants.

Often addicts have a very strong inner turmoil about the addiction. They know they have a problem and feel alone and helpless to stop. If you can access this part of her then it is a beginning to her admitting she has a problem and this is the first step. Often the biggest hurdle. She then needs to know in very clear terms how her addiction is effecting your relationship, and then what you would like her to do. Getting her to admit she needs help is a very postive step.

Your posts show many of the classic signs that would indicate your wife might have an addiction. I would seriously consider getting professional help. Addictions can be signs that there are deeper psychological issues that need to be addressed in order for the person to have a happy fulfilling life. Society might be contributing to this addiction, yes I wholeheartedly agree. But ultimately, it is your wife's behaviour that is the problem for both of you.

http://www.4therapy.com/consumer/life_t ... Have+It%3F

As for short-term things you both can do together. (It's important she agrees to do this with you as part of controlling the addiction)

Never shop without a list.
Don't use credit cards.
Keep seperate accounts, give her an allowance.
Reward non-addictive healthy behaviours with healthy rewards
Record every purchase.
Write lists of future financial goals, and plans to achieve them so she can see the long-term benefits.

A professional can give you more advice and information than I can. I wish you well and hopefully this has been helpful.

[threadbear]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Longsword', 'T')hanks again for all the answers. I genuinely appreciate them.

For me, the really encouraging messages were the ones where others told how they had dealt with the similar situation that I face.

I personally believe her spending is very much influenced by the culture around her, and that there is much I can do if I am active about this. I don't think he will ever share my caution about the future of the world's energy, but that does not mean that we can find no common ground on this. I have to at least, try, I am committed to our relationship.

Gotta say I like threadbear's soution. Being a woman, she probably reads the situation better than the men

[crapattack]

In response to Threadbear's hard line approach is if you threaten to leave her if her behaviour doesn't change, and then you don't, you'll find yourself in a much harder position and the addiction will get worse.

Often times threatening addicts and shoving their noses in the consequences only strengthens the addiction because it increases feelings of worthlessness driving them to their "junk". This is why addiction is so difficult to treat and we see junkies on the streets. They feel abandoned by their loved ones and unable to talk to them.

Threadbear has an oddly negative opinion of women, maybe just the kind of woman your wife is, I don't know. Being in love is not being weak, sometimes love is the strongest and most brave thing we can do. All I can say is she might be manipulating you, but this is caused by her addiction. If she is truly addicted, she can't just "smarten up" - it doesn't work that way. At the same time it is very important that you don't let her continue to use you in any way to obtain her "fix". In order to ever get better she has to know that no amount of manipulation will ever work with you.

[o2ny]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', 'W')hen you see the struggle that people with real mental illness go through getting the necessary help, respect and support they need, this drives me up the wall. Why is it okay they end up sleeping under bridges, when goofs that shop till YOU drop, get compassionate treatment?

[threadbear]

Crapattack, O2ny, Listen, if there is a genuine obsessive compulsive disorder, I agree with you. But let's take a serious look at this. How many people are leeching the life out of their mates because they have serious character flaws that need to be addressed? Greed isn't a medical condition, it's one of the deadly sins. And what kind of mush headed spineless dorks do you take women for? Have we given up the fainting bench for hysterical shopping? Come on!

Men and women who remain with partners who manipulate them so successfully perhaps deserve no better. And to turn around and claim it's all about love, is a transparent lie to the world and to themselves. It may be a kind of attachment, but it's not love. I'm speaking from what I've seen, and this may or may not apply to anyone here, but should be given serious consideration.

[hotsacks]

Longsword: I've had three trips to the altar.You could say I've made a considerable investment in the marriage industry.What threadbear is telling you is worth many thousands of dollars in lieu of lawyers' fees,debt and counselling costs.You're being had.Hold everyone you know to the same standard you set for yourself.Would you do anything that put your wife at risk? If not,says the gander,the goose must go.

[crapattack]

Threadbear, who knows if she's really got an addiction problem, but you make it out like she's evil incarnate yanking his strings around so he's a lifeless marionette, poor bastard. I believe he's got some somewhere in those ck's. But, in the end it is the behaviour that's the problem, not the reasons for it. If he doesn't love her then he should bug out and head for the nearest lawyer, it's not worth it. Longsword, if you really do love her and you're willing to put in the time, make sure she makes a comittment to get better you can believe, because, baby, if she doesn't want to there's no point either. I've learned you can't change anyone, and they won't change unless they want to. In which case it's bug out time and lick your wounds in a nice hotel bar. Only don't just threaten it, do it.

(oh, no offense Hotsacks, but I'd be careful of people who've been married 3 times, they're obviously doing lots wrong - IMHO )

[threadbear]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('crapattack', 'T')hreadbear, who knows if she's really got an addiction problem, but you make it out like she's evil incarnate yanking his strings around so he's a lifeless marionette, poor bastard. I believe he's got some somewhere in those ck's. But, in the end it is the behaviour that's the problem, not the reasons for it. If he doesn't love her then he should bug out and head for the nearest lawyer, it's not worth it. Longsword, if you really do love her and you're willing to put in the time, make sure she makes a comittment to get better you can believe, because, baby, if she doesn't want to there's no point either. I've learned you can't change anyone, and they won't change unless they want to. In which case it's bug out time and lick your wounds in a nice hotel bar. Only don't just threaten it, do it.

(oh, no offense Hotsacks, but I'd be careful of people who've been married 3 times, they're obviously doing lots wrong - IMHO )

[ubercynicmeister]

LOL, Hi Longsword.

It seems like you;'re in a bit of a pickle, to use a phrase from Lord of the Rings (the pickle in the particular quote was one where they've just agreed to go to Mount Doom, a volcano some thousands of miles away, surrounded by a desert, which is surrounded by the most ruthless of soldiers...so you can sorta work out it was a vast understatement). .

One of the least understood things about the Modern West is the way that "floorspace" for the consumer shrines also known as Shopping Malls has over 7 times more space devoted to female's stuff than males. Yup, 700% more floor-space devoted to the girls than the guys - source Warren Farrell's "The Myth Of Male Power", page 23, 2003 paperback edition; he was quoting Jacquie Lynn Foltyn's 'Feminine Beauty In American Culture' her doctoral dissertation, University of California San Diego. Last Christmas someone (I cannot find it) published some survey results that showed that guys will spend about 40% (of what wasn't said - I assume the Christmas shopping money) on a woman, yet the girls were not going to spend a cent on the guys. Hmm, can anyone say "equality"?

This is gunna sound rough, and it's not pleasant to hear, but you may well be better off single, Longsword. If you are "partnered" with someone (and it doesn't matter if you're partnered with a guy or a gal, in this sense) who is utterly addicted to "retail therapy", then Peak Oil is the end of Clueless Consumerism, no matter what else happens. Even if we end up solving the "energy crisis" and somehow replace Oil in it's entirety and have a seamlessly smooth transition (yes, I know, that's asking for the nearly impossible, but bear with me) to some non-Oil energy and chemical source, then Clueless Consumerism will have to be ditched in any case.

If a person is addicted to retail therapy, then the end of clueless consumerism is gonna be like the End Of The World, and they are not going to be very pleasant to the people around them, not one little bit. Any attempt to "explain" the end of such, and try to get them to ...well, accomodate the change... is likely to end up with them blaming the person who is trying to tell them. "Shoot the messenger" seems a common practice for those addicted to Retail Therapy.

They just have to figure it out for themselves. Some will never do so. In any case, where one has to continually "bribe" a person into enjoying themselves, that is not the sort of person that makes a good partner, Peak Oil or No Peak Oil. If a person is not capable of enjoyment without being bribed into it, then they are not very mature, if you know what I mean.

Sorry to leave you hanging but I have to go hang the washing out. To make the worst pun: Oh, hang it all!

[Longsword]

Once again, thanks for all the replies. It is amazing how widely different advice one gets, and how common issue this seems to be. I certainly don't seem to be alone even within the Peak Oilers. The irony of the whole thing thing is what I want to achieve is of course against everything our rules want us to do. As far as I can see our whole economy is banking on massive High Street growth.

I am going talk to her and take away the credit cards and put her on shopping allowance, and see if that works. I'll see then if sterner measures are needed. After all, I want to avoid fate like this:

Wife gets men to rob her husband.

[crapattack]

Longsword,
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')am going talk to her and take away the credit cards and put her on shopping allowance, and see if that works. I'll see then if sterner measures are needed.

[ubercynicmeister]

Some good news?

It's from Australia, admittedly, but still...some indication that Peak Oil is starting to hurt the Hip-Pocket Nerve

One thing I utterly recommend EVERY male to read is Warren Farrel's The Myth Of Male Power.

[crapattack]

Men always criticise women for shopping too much, when if it weren't for women there'd be nothing in the house but a bottle of ketchup too eat, 2 stained t-shirts and a pair of mismatched socks to wear.

I hate shopping and totally appreciate when my partner buys things for me. Now, on the other hand, when it comes to tech toys I'm there.

[threadbear]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('crapattack', 'M')en always criticise women for shopping too much, when if it weren't for women there'd be nothing in the house but a bottle of ketchup too eat, 2 stained t-shirts and a pair of mismatched socks to wear.

I hate shopping and totally appreciate when my partner buys things for me. Now, on the other hand, when it comes to tech toys I'm there.

[PhebaAndThePilgrim]

Good day from Pheba, From the farm:

I thought I would give a woman's point of view, especially a woman that has been able to have her cake and eat it at the same time.
I have been married for 10 years. My second marriage. My first was to a spending nutcase. Ditto for my present spouse. His first wife was money stupid!
Before we got married we sat down and agreed about how we would handle finances.
Rule #1, We would never own a credit card. We never have, never will.
Rule #2, we would have two checking accounts, one for farm, one for house.
Rule #3, we would always sit down and talk over any purchase over 100.00.
Everything went well until I became ill. I have lupus, and no longer work outside of the home. He is a carpenter, and is getting ready for retirement.
I can't wait until we can pursue peak oil goals together.

Now, here's the thing. I just love buying stuff. Getting new stuff is like a sedative that stills the subconscious peak oil madness. SHopping makes me feel healthy and normal. Shopping is pretty much an addiction for almost any woman. Corporations know this, and they know how to hook women.
But, I also have a love for my world, my country, and my fellow man.
So, I have kind of found a way around the system. My husband says that I have become a pro at playing the system against itself.
In my eyes playing the system against itself is the only way to win.
Here is how I have my cake and eat it to.
I shop second hand. I have been a volunteer at a thrift shop for years. I buy all of my clothing, super nice clothing for 25 cents an item. I buy shoes and underclothing new, but that is all.
Our biggest donations at the thrift shop are women's tops. Women buy tons of tops because they are marketed to be different and cute. Then they get bored and want new tops.
I sew, and will buy items that need a bit of repair. I buy super expensive named tops for 25 cents each. I also buy brand name blue jeans for 25 cents, and coats for a dollar.
I go to auctions and flea markets, and junk stores seeking those elusive treasures. I enjoy myself and keep discretionary spending to a minimum.
Unlike some who are caught up in bragging on their designer names, I do not like designer names, but love to brag on how little I paid for something. I guess you could say I am a reverse snob.
I play Nintendo, but have bought all of my stash used from a store that does swap and trade. I also purchase my DVD sets the same way. I love old tv series on DVD. New stuff is mostly trashy. But, I do love "Lost". Has a peak oil feel, lol.
During the summer I go to sales and buy up stuff to sell on E-bay. Doing this supplements my spending money since I can't work outside of the home.
We live on my husband's salary and the farm. We do fine as long as I don't go insane buying retail.
I do live without some things, and do just fine. For instance, I do not have an I-pod, and don't even know how to use one. My computer is second hand, just like all of my Nintendo stuff.
I will probably buy Legend of Zelda, Twilight Princess this spring (can't wait), but will save up my discretionary spending money to purchase it.
This past year we purchased a new stove for the kitchen, and a new water softener. We paid cash. If we don't have cash, we don't buy it.
I buy food from a co-op, and buy a lot in bulk. I try to stay home as much as possible, but do spend gas money because I am involved in several charitys.
In Michael MOore's movie, Bowling for COlumbine he interviews Marilyn Manson. Concerning the violence in our society and how messed up we are, Manson really hit the nail on the head when he said: "The fear feeds the consumption".
I can't help but feel that there are many in our modern world that are shopping and consuming out of a paralyzing fear that they just can't pin down.
I know why I shop. I am afraid, of growing old, dying from Lupus or cancer (Have also had cancer. I am considered a cure). Sometimes I feel an overwhelming urge to shop for a bargain. The feeling is almost like needing a fix. I need something I can touch and caress, and feel as reality around me. In this way I can delude myself by something concrete, something real. The feeling is hard to explain, but I am around many women who I sense are in the same pickle, only they don't possess my level of awareness, or my ability to sniff out a bargain. I am afraid, and filled with fear of a future that I instinctively know is ready to implode.
I have a funny feeling that many who boo-hoo peak oil really know at a gut level that the implosion is near. Fear feeds the consumption.
My daughter and son in law are both spendaholics and are very unhappy. They make very good money, almost double my husband's salary, yet they always seem to be short of money. I see in my daughter the exact feelings I spoke of in the above writing. There is nothing I can do to ease her pain.
I don't think the US is the happiest nation in the world. I think the US population is in greater pain than any nation on earth.
Just my take from where I see it.
From the farm,
Pheba