[Plantagenet]

You know your local economy and politics better than I do, R11----sounds like Houston may have gone down the wrong track.

At least Houston is nice and flat for your great bicycle trips.

I've got a 600' elevation gain up to my house, so I tend to pick the motorcycle over the bike for my trips into town.

[dinopello]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'S')ubway system installations are the most expensive and need to be built during good times, not bad.

[vision-master]

Mpls Street Car system - replaced by GM buses in the early 50's......

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'w')as a REAGAN administration bill.

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', '
')The old, white, rural base of the GOP wants to eliminate funding for MT – and anything else to do with cities for that matter, isn't that right? Why else go to the trouble of eliminating the floor of 20% if not to reduce the amount of funding? Be serious. LOL!

[dinopello]

Those of you interested in the Transportation issues should consider signing up with Transportation for America. This is a broad-based group headed by some very savvy policy and political people working this issue.

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '1'). If the "old, white, rural base of the GOP" wants to eliminate funding for MT, then why isn't it eliminated in the Republican budget?

[Timo]

I find this thread oddly entertaining, reading about planning and forethought and the public good.......... As one who entered the profession specifically to improve the future for the lot of us, i can tell you all in no uncertain terms that "common sense" is extremely uncommon. Personal liberties trumps the common good. Private property rights trumps insightful preparation for known and expected disasters. In some cases, sure, the individuals rights should prevail against unwanted and unnecessary public intrusion. There are lots of examples where public projects are carried out for all the wrong reasons. BUT, the broader public assumes, then, based on only a few of these examples, that ALL public projects are evil and wasteful, and they demand legislation that specifically prohibits governments from considering the much larger purpose of serving the public good, under any circumstances. One umbrella does not fit all. As an unfortunate example of this description, on Monday, i sat in a meeting of our local MPO (that uses fed$$ for transportation projects), and a City Council member asked what the payback period was for installing GPS tracking devices on our local busses so users could track them on-line to know where they were relative to the bus stop. This council member then proceeded to ask what the payback period was for CNG busses, then bus shelters for patrons, then even the planning for future bus services at all. His expectation was that PT is a business and it should make money. Someone in the room (a planner) returned the question to ask him what the payback period was for an arterial road, then a collector, then a residential street, then a sewer line. The Council member was forced to realize that not everything governments do can, or should be run as a business. Some government functions serve the public, for the public good, and they are paid for by the public through taxes. Without these services, our very civilization would be unrecognizable. Now, not every city has the same needs or abilities. Melbourne may have a fantastic PT system. However, Auckland, for example, does not. Auckland is built on a series of old dormant volcanoes with lots of naturally occuring variations in the shoreline, making for a very large number of peninsulas that have been developed for their 2 million(?) people. It would be physically impossible to attach all of the various parts of Auckland via light rail, above or below ground. Well, if possible at all, it would cost billions in any currency. Point being, again, one umbrella does not cover every situation. Characterizing one problem or one solution as the panacea for all is counterproductive. As far as $9/gal gas is concerned, the only way to know for sure is to see it in the rear view mirror.

[dinopello]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'I')t isn't a complicated question, why eliminate the permanent guarantee if not to eliminate the funding either in this budget or the next?

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', '
')It isn't a complicated question, why eliminate the permanent guarantee if not to eliminate the funding either in this budget or the next?

[rangerone314]

How many Americans REALLY drive Hummers?

America is much more spread out than Europe, too many suburbs. America is fooked.

[Outcast_Searcher]

Lots of interesting point here, but a core point seems to be missing or at least understated.

If it takes time, not only will people be able to adapt -- but, given the mileage standards that (supposedly) will be required -- vehicles WILL adapt, given the fleet mpg requirements mandated during Obama's tenure.

(There's LOTS I don't like Obama, but this was definitely a good thing). My main concern, especially given the U.S. interest now in GM and Chrysler is will the new mpg requirements be ENFORCED? If not -- then the impetus for future improvements will be greatly reduced. The U.S.'s past record for this (forgiving the big 3 for falling short, exceptions for pickup trucks, etc) is not encouraging.

If it takes, say 10 years for gasoline to escalate to $9.00 per gallon, the higher mpg standards of the average new car will GREATLY reduce the pain of this. It won't completely solve the problem, but it will surely help.

Of course, it's not free either. The cars will cost more. The many more-efficient electric motors needed (small ones to do all sorts of functions in the car to save fuel) are larger than current parts. Getting them to all FIT is a designer's nightmare - even without the cost issue.

I remain a moderate -- rough sledding ahead intermediate term, but nothing close to doom, barring some cataclysmic event. (And if we live beyond 12/21/12, of course).

[Revi]

The cost of running a car is around $9000 a year now. If gas goes up it will increase that to 10 or 11 thousand dollars. Most people are going to be out of cars within the next 5 or ten years anyway. The price of gas may not even matter to most people. The only appropriate use of gas is in forestry and agriculture anway.

[AgentR11]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Revi', 'T')he cost of running a car is around $9000 a year now. If gas goes up it will increase that to 10 or 11 thousand dollars. Most people are going to be out of cars within the next 5 or ten years anyway. The price of gas may not even matter to most people. The only appropriate use of gas is in forestry and agriculture anway.

[Beery1]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', '$')9 bucks! Big deal! Plenty of places have been paying that already. Hasn't triggered any revolutions yet that I have heard of.

[Beery1]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rangerone314', 'H')ow many Americans REALLY drive Hummers?

America is much more spread out than Europe, too many suburbs. America is fooked.

[Lore]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Beery1', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rangerone314', 'H')ow many Americans REALLY drive Hummers?

America is much more spread out than Europe, too many suburbs. America is fooked.

[AgentR11]

Interesting commentary in the list with regard to bike theft... I guess I kinda like the fact no one here even recognizes my bike as theft worthy! REDNECKS RULE!

Does make me think a bit what I might need to do to the configuration of the bike if theft started to become a problem.

[SeaGypsy]

Melbourne (Aus) has the best PT in the southern hemisphere AND is consistently in the top 3 cities worldwide for bicycle sales, selling more than cars for about 10 years now.

[Loki]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR11', '
')
Only if you are playing keepin' up with the Jones'...

Mine:
Insurance: 800
Depreciation: 500
Maintenance: 1500
Taxes&Fees: 100
Gas: 1000

Total: 3900.

Step outside people's expectations and you find a whole lot of "impossible" is trivially easy.