[AgentR11]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergyUnlimited', 'W')hat if a workplace is 20-40 miles away?
Most peoples won't make it by bike and those who do are likely to arrive at work tired and not fresh.

[SeaGypsy]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('seahorse3', 'I') don't see the US making a transition to mass commuter society, like buses and trains. Those are funded by the government, and local gov'ts are going broke. I've read where several bigger cities are actually cutting back on bus service, not increasing it, all at a time when there is more need, not less.

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('seahorse3', 'I') don't see the US making a transition to mass commuter society, like buses and trains. Those are funded by the government, and local gov'ts are going broke. I've read where several bigger cities are actually cutting back on bus service, not increasing it, all at a time when there is more need, not less.

[vtsnowedin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR11', '[')I kinda doubt MOST commutes are 40 miles though.

[Tanada]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dsula', 'E')urope, like anybody else, takes the cheapest option available. And that is most often truck, not train, especially if you take the first and last few miles into consideration.
You get as 'long-haul' as the continent is large. For some strange reason people on one end of the empire always want stuff from the other end. Oranges from Spain to Hamburg. Mercedes cars from Germany to Napoli. Chocolate from Belgium to Portugal, etc. Not much different than Oranges from Florida to Vermont.

[SeaGypsy]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_train
Trucking at this scale is very efficient:

So is inland waterways shipping.
Europe has many options for waterway transit re-emergence and invigoration, as does the Eastern US and many other parts of the world. The beauty of shipping above all other forms of transport is the lack of requirement for maintenance. Of course inland waterways do require dredging and signal systems maintenance, but this is fractional to road or rail maintenance. Multiple handling and transfer waste inputs multiply from the source of dispersal, rather than origin. The biggest waste in food miles is from the supermarket to the refrigerator, not from Argentina to Singapore. Places a long way from waterways will likely in thee very long run have to become food self sufficient.

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('seahorse3', 'I') don't see the US making a transition to mass commuter society, like buses and trains. Those are funded by the government, and local gov'ts are going broke. I've read where several bigger cities are actually cutting back on bus service, not increasing it, all at a time when there is more need, not less.

[SeaGypsy]

Having just done my first year of serious urban PT commuting after 25 years out bush, I am enjoying it so far, having learned how to avoid peak crush. $5-$8 a day unlimited across a city of 4 million, working online, mostly everyone very polite and savvy to PT culture, eye candy galore if interested, the very occasional public abuse is mostly more entertaining than serious. It's way more fun and productive than sitting at the stinking lights.

[dissident]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'T')he half of the House that is supported by oil companies voted a month ago (when gas on the east coast was $5/gallon) to defund mass transit and devote 100% of fuel taxes to road building - in New York City!
Even here at po.com people on the right routinely bash mass transit as a waste of "their" tax dollars, (mostly the same folks that say any government spending is seen as a waste unless it is in a check cut to their name). I'll be the first to say big government work is the definition of pork barrel but if we don't decide it's pretty important to get the job done it might well be our downfall.

[AgentR11]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'E')ven here at po.com people on the right routinely bash mass transit as a waste of "their" tax dollars, (mostly the same folks that say any government spending is seen as a waste unless it is in a check cut to their name). I'll be the first to say big government work is the definition of pork barrel but if we don't decide it's pretty important to get the job done it might well be our downfall.

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '
')The more expensive gas gets, the more public support will grow for mass transit.

[SeaGypsy]

Check out Melbourne: (Aus/ rail only map)

[Pops]

@AR
Your point is perfectly reasonable, unfortunately "perfectly reasonable" doesn't enter into party politics at the moment.

This guy points out that defunding the NYC subway system has as no more to do with spending than defunding NPR.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'F')aith isn't involved in mass transit.

[SeaGypsy]

Melbourne's PT system is founded on old money in the gold rush days of the 1800's. Ever since, the public has demanded whether at profit or loss lines and services be kept up and added to. The city has a strong Irish unionist root in common with the big Apple, just in this case not persuasive enough it seems.

[SeaGypsy]

Mmmm...? The subway is and has been a means of gainfull employment of highly skilled underground technicians, post major hydro- electric development (such as we has with the Snowy River project) and during times of depressed ore prices. That's what happened here anyhow.

[AgentR11]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'T')hose cities that have had the foresight to build light rail mass transit will do ok

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', '
')Take a look at the link above, the guy makes the point much better than me.
House Republicans seek to eliminate the Mass Transit Account from the federal Highway Trust Fund.

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR11', ' ')Houston gets credit for "foresight to build light rain mass transit". Has quite a bit of it. None of it is suitable for use by most commuters at any price. They could have dropped a rail hub next to The Woodland's Mall and packed train car after train car full; but no, it was easier to lay the tracks into and through uninhabited and low income areas, neither of which has any use for the "costs $10 to blink" downtown area that the train is supposedly providing commuter service too.
Houston's bus system is pretty good though; unfortunately bus (including waits/transfers) is slower than cycling.

[AgentR11]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'Y')ou can see it happening in Portland----they built transit across empty land to the airport, and the malls and businesses are now filling in along the LR corridor.