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Russian secondary peak approaches?

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.

Re: Russian oil production?

Unread postby Fishman » Wed 04 Oct 2006, 11:10:38

Remember reserves and production are very different. The US has one of the highest production rates ( in the top 10 or 20 I think) but little left in reserves.
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Re: Russian oil production?

Unread postby rwwff » Wed 04 Oct 2006, 11:15:49

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Fishman', 'R')emember reserves and production are very different. The US has one of the highest production rates ( in the top 10 or 20 I think) but little left in reserves.


To be fair, we have intentionally blinded ourselves through legislation to some extensive areas that may hold large petroleum reserves.

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Re: Russian oil production?

Unread postby Fishman » Wed 04 Oct 2006, 14:38:55

Agree that there are areas unexplored due to political reasons, the amount is a question however. The axiom may be"get it anyway you can, anywhere you can". That does seem to be china's view
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Re: Russian oil production?

Unread postby mekrob » Wed 04 Oct 2006, 16:44:44

Remaining oil left in the US is around 80 bln barrels, proven and future discoveries. That means we have about 8% of the world's oil (probably less) and we produce about 8%, so we're right on target for depleting ours as fast as theirs.

I'd have to say though, that I believe world reserves (ultimate) to be much higher than 1 or even 1.2 trillion. I'd say about 1.5 trillion, possibly even 2 trillion, depending upon circumstances. That means the US actually depletes awfully quickly comparatively.
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Re: Russian oil production?

Unread postby MonteQuest » Wed 04 Oct 2006, 19:29:18

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mekrob', 'R')emaining oil left in the US is around 80 bln barrels, proven and future discoveries. That means we have about 8% of the world's oil (probably less) and we produce about 8%, so we're right on target for depleting ours as fast as theirs.



My memory says 21 billion barrels of proven reserves which is 2%.
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Re: Russian oil production?

Unread postby rwwff » Wed 04 Oct 2006, 19:32:32

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mekrob', 'R')emaining oil left in the US is around 80 bln barrels, proven and future discoveries. That means we have about 8% of the world's oil (probably less) and we produce about 8%, so we're right on target for depleting ours as fast as theirs.


Ummm, no one can no what future discoveries will be made, especially in the currently offlimits areas; which might hold nothing, or might hold fields that make Saudi Arabia look miniscule. Its a true unknown; and why Floridians are especially paranoid of exploration. One really big field, and the whole country would vote them into oblivion to get at it.
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'The Emerging Russian Giant Plays its Cards Strategically'

Unread postby Carlhole » Sat 07 Oct 2006, 15:01:42

The Emerging Russian Giant Plays its Cards Strategically

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Engdahl', '.')..Following the Cheney meeting, Khodorkovsky began talks with ExxonMobil and ChevronTexaco, Condi Rice’s old firm, about taking a major state in Yukos, said to have been between 25% and 40%. That was intended to give Khodorkovsky de facto immunity from possible Putin government interference by tying Yukos to the big US oil giants and, hence, to Washington. It would also have given Washington, via the US oil giants, a de facto veto power over future Russian oil and gas pipelines and oil deals. Days before his October 2003 arrest on tax fraud charges, Khodorkovsky had entertained George H.W. Bush, the representative of the powerful and secretive Washington Carlyle Group in Moscow. They were discussing the final details of the US oil company share buy-in of Yukos.

Yukos had also just made a bid to acquire rival Sibneft from Boris Berezovsky, another Yeltsin-era Oligarch. YukosSibneft, with 19.5 billion barrels of oil and gas, would then own the second-largest oil and gas reserves in the world after ExxonMobil. YukosSibneft would be the fourth largest in the world in terms of production, pumping 2.3 million barrels of crude oil a day. The Exxon or Chevron buy-up of YukosSibneft would have been a literal energy coup d’etat. Cheney knew it; Bush knew it; Khodorkovsky knew it.

Above all, Vladimir Putin knew it and moved decisively to block it...


F. William Endahl is the author of A Century Of War: Anglo-American Oil Politics and the New World Order

His website is at:
http://www.engdahl.oilgeopolitics.net/

He is one of the foremost expositors of the fascinating drama that is oil geopolitics.

Much as Daniel Yergin is disliked here at PO.com, you could read his book "The Prize" (which is very good history indeed) and then read Engdahl's immediately afterwards to get a first-rate historical perspective on the fundamental industry driving most major events in our present world. Engdahl admits to the critical importance of peak oil while, of course, Yergin does not.

However good his historical work, it would be very out of character for Daniel Yergin (pretty much a company man) to paint the US oil interests in any sort of Machiavellian light. However, this is not a constraint that Engdahl places on himself!

So don't be a redneck. Read them both!
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Re: 'The Emerging Russian Giant Plays its Cards Strategicall

Unread postby Colorado-Valley » Sun 08 Oct 2006, 02:28:04

Hey, I always read all of Engdahl's stuff.

He's very, very good.
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Re: 'The Emerging Russian Giant Plays its Cards Strategicall

Unread postby evilgenius » Wed 18 Oct 2006, 21:16:04

I have been hinting that Russia might be a more dangerous player in the endgame than the US. Their position is a little bit weaker and what they have to gain is relatively greater. In terms of being tempted to go nuclear or to act deviously they have more incentive. Plus they have the foil of a fascist US to deal with, just in case we thought they might turn around and engage the endgame rationally as things progressed.
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Re: 'The Emerging Russian Giant Plays its Cards Strategicall

Unread postby MOCKBA » Wed 18 Oct 2006, 22:25:18

References to less then a handful of outdated weapons to scare average joe is quite pathetic. For me the article (or latest events or some other articles I've read recently) once again asserted that US indeed archived military supremacy and could fight a nuclear war with both Russia and China simultaneously and I do have some knowledge of Russian Strategic Nuclear Forces being 1 months ahead and being able to dodge either active duty or reserves.

Moreover, my brother in law just finished doing his time in one of the best Russian armored divisions - the one that kicked Nazy ass from Moscow all the way to Berlin and since then has been constantly groomed... Well, comparing his experiences with some information that surfaced in connection with invasion of Iraq, Russian military is incapable of land war either (Russia stopped being blue navy state for quite sometime now). Don't get me wrong - Russia could defend itself same way it did during last world war, but that's about it... so scary story about handful of "modern Russian weapons", well, this is for those who choose to fear Russians.

As for strategic muscling as far as energy is concerned, we shall see when Russia would start producing those fields where due to the greed they kicked out foreign know-how. Last time they did it by themself was in 80-ies and we all know how this story goes. Where we stand today, Russia is thinking it is so damn important, but fails to notice that exports and thus oil dollars used to buy food are falling.
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Re: 'The Emerging Russian Giant Plays its Cards Strategicall

Unread postby EnergyUnlimited » Thu 19 Oct 2006, 03:10:53

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MOCKBA', '
')........As for strategic muscling as far as energy is concerned, we shall see when Russia would start producing those fields where due to the greed they kicked out foreign know-how. Last time they did it by themself was in 80-ies and we all know how this story goes. Where we stand today, Russia is thinking it is so damn important, but fails to notice that exports and thus oil dollars used to buy food are falling.


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Russians getting desperate?

Unread postby waegari » Mon 04 Dec 2006, 05:23:19

It seems the Russians are getting quite desperate about their reserves:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A') group of Russian scientists at the oil and gas research institute of the Russian Academy of Sciences, led by Azary Barenbaum, have come up with a new explanation of the nature of oil and gas formation. They argue that huge reserves of hydrocarbons may take only decades to be formed, not millions of years, as earlier believed. The new theory was published this month in the leading Russian scientific magazine Nauka I Zhizn (Science and Life).

Researchers have registered an increase in oil reserves in oil-rich provinces where deposits were explored and have been developed for many years and where oil consumption is comparatively high. Those oil-rich areas include the Russian province of Tatarstan, Ukraine, Azerbaijan, Texas and Oklahoma in the U.S., and Mexico. Depletion of reserves is possible only in the oil and gas exploration areas where consumption levels are low, holds Professor Barenbaum. He insists that formation of oil and gas is not so geological as climatic by nature, related to the water cycle and circulation of carbon on our planet.


MosNews

It seems, they would come up with any theory that might reassure them over their declining oil fields as a source of political power...I mean, if this were true, my own country, the Netherlands would be bathing in oil. And how often does it actually rain in Saudi Arabia? I wonder whether Putin buys into a theory like this...
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Re: Russians getting desperate?

Unread postby MD » Mon 04 Dec 2006, 05:48:45

These concepts have some inertia within the Russian technical/scientific community.

So a few shallow reservoirs around the world are fed by deeper reservoirs, giving the impression of a perpetually replenishing supply. You can't extrapolate that into "no worries" without a whole host of other evidence, none of which looks likely to appear any time soon.

Here we go again!
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Re: Russians getting desperate?

Unread postby ohanian » Mon 04 Dec 2006, 07:15:45

I don't give a rat's arse where oil comes from.

I just want lots of it at a dirt cheap price.

Let the academics argue over the P's and Q's of oil formation.
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Re: Russians getting desperate?

Unread postby Battle_Scarred_Galactico » Mon 04 Dec 2006, 07:32:10

Old Civilizations used to prey to rain gods, the more things change the more they stay the same huh.
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Re: Russians getting desperate?

Unread postby MD » Mon 04 Dec 2006, 08:30:06

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Battle_Scarred_Galactico', 'O')ld Civilizations used to prey to rain gods, the more things change the more they stay the same huh.


good one!
Stop filling dumpsters, as much as you possibly can, and everything will get better.

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Re: Russians getting desperate?

Unread postby gg3 » Mon 04 Dec 2006, 09:15:55

Here we go again, alright.

Last time it was "good socialist wheat," c/o a man named Lysenko.

Now we have a fairly red socialist in Venezuela, as Chavez just used the S-word a bunch of times in his victory speech on Sunday.

And we have Putin, who is too much the realist to fall for quack oil theories.

No doubt both of them know what's up with PO. And both intend to play the oil card for political gain: Chavez with the carrot of subsidized heating oil for poor families in the US (OK, he gets points there for walking his talk), and Putin with the stick of potential cutoffs of Europe to obtain compliance.

I suspect that Putin is tolerating Quack Oil for the sake of letting the fog of confusion rise just a wee bit.
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Re: Russians getting desperate?

Unread postby Zardoz » Mon 04 Dec 2006, 18:23:04

While reading this, the Saudis' claim of being able to increase production to 12,000,000 BPD came to mind.

I guess when you're a 900-pound gorilla, enjoying all the clout and prestige that being an animal of that size entails, you'll say anything to deny the reality that you're steadily losing weight.
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Re: Russians getting desperate?

Unread postby Loki » Mon 04 Dec 2006, 19:22:21

The Russians have apparently also proved that Peak Oil is a Zionist scam. Those wascally Zionists!

Seriously, though, is there a consensus here at PO.com as to when Russian production will peak? A quick Google search revealed two sources that said it will peak in 2010 (here and here).
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Re: Russians getting desperate?

Unread postby mekrob » Mon 04 Dec 2006, 19:35:19

The sad part about the "Peak Oil Zionist scam" site is that people that are anti-PO actually use that as (part of) their proof.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')eriously, though, is there a consensus here at PO.com as to when Russian production will peak?


I've never done a full analysis of their fields and it's pretty difficult because it is a pretty vast nation with many small and large fields and thus not as predictable and as easy to analyse as say Iraq or SA. But I'd say early to mid next decade is a pretty good guess. They've already peaked and they suffered through Communism, thus hurting their fields in the process. They simply can't stay alive much longer and their major fields are all past peak as far as I know.
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