[crapattack]

I repeat: PO is a truly a supply problem pure and simple. Economics has little to do with it. Demand will not decrease as supply shorts, there is no viable replacement. In a no options economy the conclusion is elegantly concrete.

[Ender]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') have said repeatedly in this thread that equilibrium WILL eventually be re-established. The difference is that I take a realistic approach when considering the mechanisms that the market uses to achieve that equilibrium. I look to history to see how things have been done in the past and I conclude that there will be severe hardship before we have fully re-adjusted to a less energy dependent lifestyle.
Considering the strong correlation between our population growth and our expanding energy supply, I conclude that a contracting energy supply will mean a contracting population. Will that be achieved through lower birth rates across a generation or will it result from global wars and famine? I don't know, but I do know (from human nature) that the world will be a violent and ugly place and it will probably stay that way for a generation.

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Omnitir', 'T')he argument that oil comes into every aspect is flawed....While energy is everything, oil is not, oil is almost entirely about transport. Peak oil is primarily a transport issue.

[crapattack]

Plantagenet, the simplicity is overwhelming.

Oil is in almost everything, *pooff*, it's gone now. Now try to eat, defend yourself, keep dry.

Apparently it takes a lot of imagination.

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('crapattack', ' ')the simplicity is overwhelming. Oil is in almost everything, *pooff*, it's gone now. Now try to eat, defend yourself, keep dry. Apparently it takes a lot of imagination.

[crapattack]

Apparently my sarcasm required too much imagination.

I was joking P.

[Plantagenet]

Use your imagination, C.

I was joking too.

CHEERS!

[crapattack]

Other roles needed,

Court jester

[wahoodoggydoo]

In the western world, I doubt the post-peak agrarian society will be 18th or 17th century. We will have industrialized farming and industrialized biofuel refining. Humans have an innate talent for destruction, but we also have an innate talent for creation. Everyday when the sun comes up, we have all the energy we could ask for, we just need to tap it. When you consider all the infrastructure that has been created to date, it is easy to imagine that society has the ability to mass produce solar electric and solar thermal on a huge scale. Yes, the wastefulness in western society must diminish. Yes, the world cannot sustain unchecked human overpopulation. But the concept that western society will return to quiet little farming communities is fanciful.

We have the resources to prevent post-peak oil from bringing about the downfall of human society. Post peak oil is not the issue. The issue is human overpopulation. Humans, like all other species that have exhausted their resources, will eventually decline. But they will decline due to starvation and disease, not because we used up all the oil.

Society will ADVANCE past oil, not DECLINE. In a century from now, people will look back on us as the 'cavemen' who burned fuel instead of tapping into the sun's energy. Population will be somewhat self-correcting. We already see declining birth rates as standard of living increases.

Humanity survived, indeed thrived, in the 20th century that included two world wars, a super flu pandemic, and HIV. Something as trivial as replacing oil as our primary energy supply is not going to bring about the downfall of humanity.

You doom-and-gloomers crack me up!

[jeezlouise]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('wahoodoggydoo', 'B')ut they will decline due to starvation and disease, not because we used up all the oil.

[Ludi]

Doggydoo, here you are claiming we will advance and at the same time claiming we will have industrialized agriculture, which has been proven to be unsustainable. Why would an advanced society choose to continue a technology which has been proven to be detrimental and ultimately a dead-end? That doesn't make any sense. What you characterise as fanciful quaint little farming villages, may be, for all we can tell, the only sustainable and practical choice an advanced society will make. Anything else is likely science fiction.

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('wahoodoggydoo', ' ')Something as trivial as replacing oil as our primary energy supply is not going to bring about the downfall of humanity.

You doom-and-gloomers crack me up!

[gg3]

I do too, and the name full of poo is a definite clue.

[EnergyUnlimited]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('wahoodoggydoo', '
')Society will ADVANCE past oil, not DECLINE. In a century from now, people will look back on us as the 'cavemen' who burned fuel instead of tapping into the sun's energy. Population will be somewhat self-correcting. We already see declining birth rates as standard of living increases.

[Blacksmith]

You are all right we do live in a petroleum age. But Drake was not discovered that long ago.