[americandream]

Assuming you were aware of the linguistic variant you converse in vis-a-vis British English, I find it curious that you took issue with my schooling. One would assume that good grammar schooling at a linguistically British English school did not extend to teaching the American variant. As for using the American variant on an American board located on the worldwide web, my linguistic skills do not extend to speaking your variant so I shall have to pass on that.

As for your second response, that still does not answer my query as to how rapidly disappearing resources and capitalism can co-exist. Never mind. That particular exercise calls for objectivity notwithstanding one's own personal preferences.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Thralen', 'A')mericandream: Strangely enough, I prefer to use the appropriate version of English for where the board is hosted. Which is American English. I am well aware that the two languages, while similar, are actually different (Bloody Wanker!).

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'H')ow will any future capitalist system resource itself on a finite planet. Hard facts please, not vague opinions.

[Thralen]

What you fail to understand is that your question (or more appropriately demand) that I answer:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'H')ow will any future capitalist system resource itself on a finite planet. Hard facts please, not vague opinions.

[americandream]

Aaaah. So do you anticipate some regression to primeval barbarism replete with cannabilism, sans Walmart and all the other wonderful fruits of the creative capitalist intellect or do you, like Karl Marx foresee a systemic shift of dialectic proportions, where man is less of an agent for change, instead adapting, evolving, and of course conforming to the spirit of his Age; limits, thrift, technology resources and survival.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Thralen', 'W')hat you fail to understand is that your question (or more appropriately demand) that I answer:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'H')ow will any future capitalist system resource itself on a finite planet. Hard facts please, not vague opinions.

[yeahbut]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Thralen', 'S')trangely enough, I prefer to use the appropriate version of English for where the board is hosted. Which is American English.

[americandream]

Good on you yeahb!

[Thralen]

Gee yeahbut. If I go to a party and I can speak the host's language and my native language and they are different. Guess which one I speak while there. It is only common courtesy but I am cognizant that common courtesy (much like common sense) is not that common any more. If I were to not be familiar with the colloquialisms in a language, I would either 1. not post in a forum in that language, 2. post while keeping my syntax and word usage simple, not trying to wax poetic and the like, or 3. apologize in advance, with any post, and mention the fact that I am not familiar with the language and please excuse anything not making sense to them. As I said, common courtesy. I understand that most people are no longer familiar with that though.

I find the best way to be understood anywhere is to make my case clearly with the least potential for confusion as possible. It is possible I over-reacted to the British spelling but look at the three messages I was replying to in the post containing your quote and you'll find that the other two were rife with mis-spellings as well. I've always stated that my belief is that if you want to hold a conversation on the internet using written words, you can at least write them correctly. So yes, it irks me somewhat. In closing to you yeahbut, good to jump to the defense of americandream but your defense only deals with a side issue from the main topic. He still hasn't answered Kristen's question and I'm about to label him a troll and say to hell with actually having a literate and interesting conversation in this thread. As a matter of fact, with four replies to my post and one other additional post in this thread after them and still no answer to Kristen's question I am declaring him "Mr. Troll" and the following will be my last reply to him in this thread unless he actually ANSWERS THE QUESTION.

americandream: What I see happening ties in to both the crash and burn statement and the statement that in capitalism the better minds tend towards working on goals with tangible results. This is the one case (in a crash scenario) where I can see the better minds trying to work out a new social system. In a crash scenario many would consider the most beneficial/tangible result for themselves to be a system that works and provides a degree of safety and comfort and hence the better minds might take a shot at it then(enlightened self-interest).

The problem being that most of them have not studied anything about building societies, communities or new ways of life so it'll take a while and we'll see a lot of trial and error. In this case (as I mentioned in a prior post, exceptions to the rule) I think that the dreamers and the idealists that made plans and never managed to get them going might have something to offer to those trying to build a new society. These are the people that have studied how to build new societies, communities and ways of life. Should the dreamers, idealists and 'better minds' managed to get together and communicate it might alleviate a great deal of the trial and error that would otherwise be necessary.

The funny thing is that I kind of see it happening close to that way for either a fast or slow crash. Fast crash, boom done, time to rebuild in the way mentioned. Slow crash - denial, denial, denial, denial, denial, crash, boom done, time to rebuild in the way mentioned. The one thing about a fast crash is that I think it would offer better chances for rebuilding as in a slow crash any reserves of just about anything that had been built up may well have been used up in the slow crash. Fast crash, bang it's done, stockpiles of this and that are still available to work with.

Thralen

[americandream]

Thralen

I wan't the one using inflammatory language ("bloody wanker" ring a bell?) when it comes to the courtesy issue. My only sin was in asking you probing questions in the orginal form of our common language. Hardly what I would consider a discourtesy considering the context of our exchange, the worldwide web.

You need to be succicnt and clear in your responses, and, convincing.

[Thralen]

Well americandream (Mr Troll). You still haven't answered Kristen's question so this is all the response you get, and don't try to tell me that "succicnt" is a British English spelling, it isn't. Succinct enough for you?

Thralen

[americandream]

Re: your comments that capitalism is a superior system. Please stay on subject given my initial position. How will capitalism continue a' la Walmart when we are at resource depletion. Precise answers minus dross and waffle would be the way to go. Alternatively you may wish to concede that capitalism is a fantasy premised around infinite resources and endless growth and that we as a species are better employed replacing this rather infantile preoccupation with toys and trinkets with something that offers our kids the prospect of a future, the same prospect we have had to date. I presume you are stumped for an answer hence this evasiveness.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Thralen', 'W')ell americandream (Mr Troll). You still haven't answered Kristen's question so this is all the response you get, and don't try to tell me that "succicnt" is a British English spelling, it isn't. Succinct enough for you?

Thralen

[Kristen]

Well Thralen, you put up a good argument, but I'm not unwise for having a different view point. Also I don't have any slice to even examine. I'm just a college idealist.

I do agree with you somewhat. Behavioral Psychology does explain most of what you mean. At the same time that idealist in me says "Kristen, there must be a different way because if material wealth and capitalism is all life is worth living for, then life ain't worth living."

[americandream]

Move beyond idealism and try understanding the basis of socio-economy and the materialist view of history. There are quite simple reasons why societies turn out the way they do, all invariably related to the conditions we find ourselves surrounded by. The world will not change because of this or that philanthropist or prophet or feel good charitable impluse. Change is invariably driven by externalities such as resources or land etc etc. Likewise, our transition will be equally dramatic.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Kristen', 'W')ell Thralen, you put up a good argument, but I'm not unwise for having a different view point. Also I don't have any slice to even examine. I'm just a college idealist.

I do agree with you somewhat. Behavioral Psychology does explain most of what you mean. At the same time that idealist in me says "Kristen, there must be a different way because if material wealth and capitalism is all life is worth living for, then life ain't worth living."

[Thralen]

Americandream (mr troll): This is the courteous way to say it. You are a blithering idiot! The non-courteous way would redden sailor's ears.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'R')e: your comments that capitalism is a superior system.

[americandream]

To quote:

"You may knock capitalism but in a roaring, healthy, capitalist society innovation and invention run rampant. People are built that way, they put more effort into something that benefits themselves than into something that doesn't. So when there are tangible rewards for their efforts they put their utmost effort into something. Seemingly they put less effort into those things that have no tangible reward for themselves"

I will repeat my question.

Whither capitalism and these cosmic truths in the face of terminal resourcing.

Or are we to take it that without capitalism, man will be but a mere shell of his former self. Resigned to trudging forlornly through a post capital and bleak landscape of communitarian socialism.

OR:

Are we to take it that humankind will operate a fleet of space shuttles to sustain an evidently essential function of his wellbeing. The exchange of toys and trinkets.

On the other hand, I suppose we could invent ourselves a time travelling machine or better still, synthesise the necessaries out of the air around us.

I am still unclear where we shall find the wherewithal for happiness seeing as it all apparently revolves around manufacturing and selling lingerie, hamburgers and safety pins.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Thralen', 'A')mericandream (mr troll): This is the courteous way to say it. You are a blithering idiot! The non-courteous way would redden sailor's ears.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'R')e: your comments that capitalism is a superior system.

[yeahbut]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Thralen', 'I')f I go to a party and I can speak the host's language and my native language and they are different. Guess which one I speak while there. It is only common courtesy

[Thralen]

americandream (mr troll): Thank you for answering my question, even if you did so indirectly. The answer is that you were cherry picking from my messages. The quote you referenced was preceded in the prior paragraph by my "I am not espousing capitalism" therefore your stipulation that I support capitalism is debunked. Allow me to quote:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '&')quot;To answer your question, not espousing a view either way on capitalism. Why can't we apply it to a social system?"

[highlander]

I get a kick out of reading post from marxists decrying the evils of capitalism. Tell me why any ism beyond tribalism will work long term when resources are limited. Show me any instance of a communist/socialist/feudalistic society that didn't keep the vast majority of trhe population in poverty by use of force. Show me any of the ruling class in the aforementioned systems that didn't live way above the masses. While capitalism does also have a wide income disparity, at least there is an opportunity for a middle class. The poor are no less poor than in other systems. When the banksters finish off the middle class in the industrialized nations, it probably won't matter what system us peons live under.

[rangerone314]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Stonemason', '&')quot;John Adams defined a constitutional republic as "a government of laws, and not of men."[1] Constitutional republics are a deliberate attempt to diminish the perceived threat of majoritarianism, thereby protecting dissenting individuals and minority groups from the "tyranny of the majority" by placing checks on the power of the majority of the population.[2] The power of the majority of the people is checked by limiting that power to electing representatives who are required to legislate with limits of overarching constitutional law which a simple majority cannot modify."
- Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitutional_republic)

[highlander]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rangerone314', 'T')raditionally in societies it has been the nobility class traditionally trying to chip away at the power of the King and exploit the commoners. It was often the King who had to take up the cause of the commoner.

[americandream]

Well Thralen

I know disingenuity when I see it and your mutterings on capitalism clearly convey a certain notion of its comparative standing despite all your qualifications. Hence the question that followed which was quite reasonable. Whither humanity with the advent of terminal resource failure and capitalisms collapse?

Hysteria does not detract from my quite reasonable request for what your view is on the state of man minus " a roaring, healthy, capitalist society innovation and invention run rampant. People are built that way, they put more effort into something that benefits themselves than into something that doesn't. So when there are tangible rewards for their efforts they put their utmost effort into something. Seemingly they put less effort into those things that have no tangible reward for themselves".

These "cosmic truths" have a knack of coming acropper when confronted by the vagaries of natural limits. Do I hear the word "adapt"? Do I hear the concession "People adapt as they have done since time immemorial" or are we to take it that the dovetailing of man's instincts with the buying and selling of womens underwear is intimaltely proximate thereby conferring a terminal pre-eminence on capitalism in the grand scheme of human existence?

Incidentally, PO has acommodated a range of dialects or lack of linguistic abilities over the many years I have been posting. If you don't like it, as they say, sayonara.

[Thralen]

americandream (Mr Troll):

Where exactly am I being disingenuous? My statements about capitalism (note statements, not muttering. I was quite clear in what I said) are from observable phenomenon. It would appear though that you think I am referring to some current system. You would be wrong in that thought. My statement was based on the observations of innovation and invention made in the years between the end of World War II and approximately 1990 or thereabouts. In capitalist societies, invention and innovation were far more prevalent and frequent than in other societies. Observable phenomenon, it means garnering facts through observation.

No question is "quite reasonable" when it has already been answered. In addition it is quite unreasonable to continue to ask questions and expect answers when you have declined to answer the question that began this exchange. So, where exactly is your answer to Kristen's question? You know the one I answered and you decided that it was necessary to attempt to dissect may answer because you didn't like it. As propositioned before, answer Kristen's question and then I will be happy to compare and contrast our answers. Don't answer it and I will continue to call you a troll as you appear to be aiming your posts at trying to aggravate me. Re-asking questions that I've answered and refusing to answer any yourself.

Regarding hysteria. Emotional outbursts have not been aimed at you, I once again must question your grasp of the language you are using when you misuse such common words.

Regarding my view of man, I believe I gave you several different answers there, if you chose not to accept them as answers that is your problem and not mine. Although here is one for you: I attempt to answer someone's honest question, what does it garner me? A troll harping on me for said answer because they didn't like it. That pretty much fits my view of mankind, it is about what I expect from them as a whole as well. If they don't like something, they either pretend to not hear it or they attack you for it. Seems I've gotten both responses from you. Feel better? You are the epitome of my opinion on mankind, although you do seem slightly more intelligent than most of them.

You are aware that one of the profit maximizing tactics in capitalism is to adapt, are you not? Now since I am still not espousing capitalism allow me to say that many companies/individuals get caught in a rut and cannot adapt, as true for capitalism as it is for any other system.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')ncidentally, PO has acommodated a range of dialects or lack of linguistic abilities over the many years I have been posting. If you don't like it, as they say, sayonara.