[quote="shortonsense"
I have advocated we start our own, electronic style one.
[/quote]
Um, yeah. That's about as useful as fantasy baseball.
PeakOil is You
THE Transition Phase Thread Pt. 2 (merged)
Re: Transition towns
by mos6507 » Mon 04 Jan 2010, 03:19:51
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('shortonsense', '
')Resource depletion is a serious issue... my resource depletion concerns.
')Resource depletion is a serious issue... my resource depletion concerns.
You don't have any concerns. They will think of something. They have it covered. Nukes and EVs are on their way. No need to worry about peak oil or anything else.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('shortonsense', '
')You see, it appears to be dogma that such an idea has value. Until you quantify the actual savings by such activity, as I have advocated through a scoring system, it is impossible to realize any value from the good intentions of those who defend the idea, but certainly aren't about to contribute a single BTU of effort into such an exercise.
Transition Towns is not just about counting BTUs, shorty. It's about trying to get people to think of each other as part of the same team so that when resource depletion makes the world more local, the people around you will be transitioning into providing the necessities of local life for themselves and others rather than just zombifying because they are hopelessly locked into some idiocracy Brawndo/Big-Box-Store mentality.
- mos6507
Re: Transition Towns in Space!
by Sixstrings » Mon 04 Jan 2010, 04:03:11
One final word on Transition Towns in Space.. it turns out that other than our own terra firma, the most "earth like" place in the solar system is actually in the cloud tops of Venus:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'G')eoffrey A. Landis has summarized the perceived difficulties in colonizing Venus as being merely from the assumption that a colony would need to be based on the surface of a planet:
"However, viewed in a different way, the problem with Venus is merely that the ground level is too far below the one atmosphere level. At cloud-top level, Venus is the paradise planet."
He has proposed aerostat habitats followed by floating cities, based on the concept that breathable air (21:79 Oxygen-Nitrogen mixture) is a lifting gas in the dense Venusian atmosphere, with over 60% of the lifting power that helium has on Earth.[2] In effect, a balloon full of human-breathable air would sustain itself and extra weight (such as a colony) in midair. At an altitude of 50 km above Venusian surface, the environment is the most Earth-like in the solar system - a pressure of approximately 1 bar and temperatures in the 0°C-50°C range.
Because there is not a significant pressure difference between the inside and the outside of the breathable-air balloon, any rips or tears would cause gases to diffuse at normal atmospheric mixing rates, giving time to repair any such damages. In addition, humans would not require pressurized suits when outside, merely air to breathe and a protection from the acidic rain. Alternatively two-part domes could contain a lifting gas like hydrogen or helium (extractable from the atmosphere) to allow a higher mass density.[3]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonization_of_Venus
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'G')eoffrey A. Landis has summarized the perceived difficulties in colonizing Venus as being merely from the assumption that a colony would need to be based on the surface of a planet:
"However, viewed in a different way, the problem with Venus is merely that the ground level is too far below the one atmosphere level. At cloud-top level, Venus is the paradise planet."
He has proposed aerostat habitats followed by floating cities, based on the concept that breathable air (21:79 Oxygen-Nitrogen mixture) is a lifting gas in the dense Venusian atmosphere, with over 60% of the lifting power that helium has on Earth.[2] In effect, a balloon full of human-breathable air would sustain itself and extra weight (such as a colony) in midair. At an altitude of 50 km above Venusian surface, the environment is the most Earth-like in the solar system - a pressure of approximately 1 bar and temperatures in the 0°C-50°C range.
Because there is not a significant pressure difference between the inside and the outside of the breathable-air balloon, any rips or tears would cause gases to diffuse at normal atmospheric mixing rates, giving time to repair any such damages. In addition, humans would not require pressurized suits when outside, merely air to breathe and a protection from the acidic rain. Alternatively two-part domes could contain a lifting gas like hydrogen or helium (extractable from the atmosphere) to allow a higher mass density.[3]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonization_of_Venus
At the right altitude, the temperature would be perfect. You wouldn't need a pressurized suit, since at this level air pressure is the same as on Earth. All you'd need is an oxygen mask, and you could sit outside on the porch (you'd still want a roof over your head, there's acid rain in the clouds). And nowhere else is the gravity as good as Venus (.94G on Venus.. Mars is .33G, so living on Mars would decalcify your bones and shrivel your muscles over time).
Assuming the world wasn't really Ending All Around Us and all that, if we wanted to we could set a twenty year goal for a skylab station in the Venusian clouds.
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Sixstrings - Fusion
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Re: Transition towns
by Revi » Mon 04 Jan 2010, 09:20:38
Back to Transition. We are starting one up here in Central Maine, which is not like starting one in Putney, Vermont. There aren't as many like minded people around here. I think this could be a strength, because if we can get it going here we'll have something that will work whatever happens.
The movement has to reach a lot of people if it's going to catch on. Not just the elite.
The movement has to reach a lot of people if it's going to catch on. Not just the elite.
Deep in the mud and slime of things, even there, something sings.
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Re: Transition towns
by socrates1fan » Mon 04 Jan 2010, 12:29:53
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '
') I don't live in a town and don't especially feel like moving to one.
') I don't live in a town and don't especially feel like moving to one.
It's only called Transition Towns. It doesn't literally mean town. Some transition efforts like up in Vermont are in very sparsely populated areas. Others are trying to tackle the big city. Obviously both extremes in population density have their challenges, but there is a concerted effort being made to address them.
In such a peak-oil scenario, it would be both dangerous and impractical as one can not gain all their needs to live well alone and part of such a scenario would be reconstruction. Do many people here simply think that if such an event occurred they would simply live in the woods for the rest of their lives? That is an abandonment of humanity, it is natural to fight to survive and hide for periods of time, but afterwards, it is important to reconstruct the world.
Towns would be the place of rebirth.
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