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THE US / Mexico Border Thread (merged)

A forum for discussion of regional topics including oil depletion but also government, society, and the future.

Re: Diesel Shortage US/Mex Border

Postby bratticus » Mon 11 Aug 2008, 23:10:44

Oh wow, a brand new way of horizontal drilling across boarders.

Like, remember back when?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2000/09/ ... 3586.shtml
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Baptist pastor beaten + tazed by Border patrol - 11 stitches

Postby Jotapay » Thu 16 Apr 2009, 23:24:25

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Re: Baptist pastor beaten + tazed by Border patrol - 11 stitches

Postby dunewalker » Thu 16 Apr 2009, 23:45:46

That guy was pretty articulate. I'm surprised they didn't plant drugs in his car. This nation is an illusion, the sooner each of us realizes it, the greater our chances to prepare mentally, emotionally and physically for survival in tougher times, soon-to-come.
"Wilderness is another civilization apart from our own." - H.D. Thoreau
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Re: Baptist pastor beaten + tazed by Border patrol - 11 stitches

Postby Jotapay » Fri 17 Apr 2009, 00:10:46

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dunewalker', 'I')'m surprised they didn't plant drugs in his car. This nation is an illusion....


We have become a nation of monsters.
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Re: Baptist pastor beaten + tazed by Border patrol - 11 stitches

Postby SeaGypsy » Fri 17 Apr 2009, 04:44:02

reminds me of a raid I was in once where cops were raiding my neighbor for meths dealing. they looked over the fence and saw 1 pathetic lille ganga plant in my share houses backyard. They came over with the warrant for the neighbors house not ours. The picked the pathetic little plant with about 1 gram of leaf on it and arrested the only one of us who insisted on the warrant being shown. They took him to the station for old parking fines and locked him up for the weekend.
The cop in charge was screaming at all of us "You; You have no rights, NO RIGHTS EVER". That was in Perth Australia in 1986.
Since then several people have been exonerated for framed MURDER charges. When the cops go to this extent; I won't violate the CoC but we know what they deserve!
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Re: Baptist pastor beaten + tazed by Border patrol - 11 stitches

Postby dinopello » Fri 17 Apr 2009, 07:00:24

I go through that checkpoint when traveling to Yuma. They usually just wave you through or ask if you are a citizen (although usually they don't say which country). I hope the ACLU or someone helps the guy with his case.
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Re: Baptist pastor beaten + tazed by Border patrol - 11 stitches

Postby Jotapay » Fri 17 Apr 2009, 07:26:15

The theme that I have seen with these Federal workers is that if you refuse to answer questions which you do not have to answer under the constitution, or submit to a search, they get really testy and tell you that you are not cooperating with reasonable requests.
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Re: Baptist pastor beaten + tazed by Border patrol - 11 stitches

Postby SeaGypsy » Fri 17 Apr 2009, 07:59:32

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jotapay', 'T')he theme that I have seen with these Federal workers is that if you refuse to answer questions which you do not have to answer under the constitution, or submit to a search, they get really testy and tell you that you are not cooperating with reasonable requests.


That's exactly what the law says in Australia. Failura to comply with the reasonable request of an Officer of the Law who has reason to believe a crime may be prevented or prosecuted constitutes a violation of the Law. We have no real presumption of innocense.
It seems now the USA is following Oz, just as it did with credit cards and auto tellers in the early 80's. (Not to mention wiretapping)
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Re: Baptist pastor beaten + tazed by Border patrol - 11 stitches

Postby mattduke » Fri 17 Apr 2009, 08:02:26

There is a thread (isolated incidents) for these items.
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Re: Baptist pastor beaten + tazed by Border patrol - 11 stitches

Postby Jotapay » Fri 17 Apr 2009, 09:18:33

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mattduke', 'T')here is a thread (isolated incidents) for these items.


Gotcha, thanks.
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Re: Baptist pastor beaten + tazed by Border patrol - 11 stitches

Postby Plantagenet » Fri 17 Apr 2009, 13:53:32

I don't normally click on youtube links, but this this one was pretty interesting.
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Re: Baptist pastor beaten + tazed by Border patrol - 11 stitches

Postby Dawn » Fri 17 Apr 2009, 14:19:31

That's disturbing how police can abuse their power. I hope each of them are fired and I hope this guy presses charges on them both criminally and civilly. I'm not the sue happy type, but they need to be punished and made examples of for the whole world to see.
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Re: Baptist pastor beaten + tazed by Border patrol - 11 stitches

Postby jasonraymondson » Fri 17 Apr 2009, 15:12:49

You are either the victim or the perpetrator

Thousands of years of history have taught us this. You should have to to know when it is okay and when it isn't. That is how the elites maintain the power and control. The only times you hear about these events are when people are sloppy.
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Re: Baptist pastor beaten + tazed by Border patrol - 11 stitches

Postby smallpoxgirl » Fri 17 Apr 2009, 22:07:04

Absolutely atrocious. That being said, it's never smart to argue law with cops. The truth is that often the cops don't know the law very well and a fair number of them really get off on using their tazers. As satisfying as it may be defying them, the reality is that you're in a no win situation and it's really not worth getting your butt kicked. I wouldn't have answered their questions or consented to be searched, but if they start ordering you out of the car, you need to get out. Say it over and over, "I don't consent to any searches.", but don't roll up the windows and try to barricade yourself inside. The charges against this guy will probably be dropped, be his car is messed up, his face is messed up, he spent a night in jail, and no way are the cops going to face charges.

I got pulled over in Missoula, MT a couple of years ago for a burned out taillight. The cop decides he wants to play 20 questions. "Where you going? Who you visiting? Where do you work? What's your phone number?" After the first couple I started refusing to answer. The guy gets all beet red in the face and starts growling at me. "This could have been a simple warning. Now you're going to have a long night!" I seriously thought he was going to at least search my car and probably arrest me. He went back to his car. I assume he perused the Montana code and realized I was not obligated to answer those questions. Probably he also thought it over and decided he was going to have a hard time explaining to his sergeant why he felt the need to arrest me over a taillight. He ended up giving me a ticket where I had to appear in court. I went to court and the judge dismissed it. At the side of the road, you are helpless and these guys are god. It's REALLY frightening.
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Sifting through the ashes every day
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Re: Baptist pastor beaten + tazed by Border patrol - 11 stitches

Postby Jotapay » Fri 17 Apr 2009, 22:20:52

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', 'A')t the side of the road, you are helpless and these guys are god. It's REALLY frightening.


I live by the mantra: you may beat the rap, but you won't beat the ride.

The way I deal with things like this is to be as helpful to them as possible. I do not consent to any searches or submit to a 20-questions grilling or anything like that, but I help them do their job and let them know I'm not a threat. I normally get a little conversational with them and do answer a few simple questions, but I have never been grilled before. I make it a habit not to break the law and my CHL license in Texas normally receives favorable treatment from officers here. So I've never had an issue, ever. The police in Austin and Texas DPS state troopers have been very professional in my opinion, however (especially the state troopers), which really helps.
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Re: Baptist pastor beaten + tazed by Border patrol - 11 stitches

Postby Dawn » Fri 17 Apr 2009, 22:38:58

smallpoxgirl, I agree with not arguing the law with cops. My uncle was beat up pretty bad years ago for doing the same.

For me, the only time they stopped us and searched our car was when I was 7 months pregnant with our first baby. They pulled us over because of the sticker in the back window of the car I just bought... It said OLDSMOBILE. I got pulled over for that probably 6 times in one month, before I finally took it out... Anyway, when they stopped us my future husband was driving and his skin isn't as white as mine, so I think they assumed he was smuggling something.

When they asked to search the car we didn't object. I think they got a little crazy when they searched our take out food, and asked me to lift my shirt up so they could see my belly. I remember the female officer commenting about how small my belly was for being that pregnant.

So, yeah, they made us feel like dirt for nothing.
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Re: Baptist pastor beaten + tazed by Border patrol - 11 stitches

Postby dinopello » Fri 17 Apr 2009, 23:08:39

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', ' ')I wouldn't have answered their questions or consented to be searched, but if they start ordering you out of the car, you need to get out..


As I said, I go through that checkpoint on travel to Yuma. They ask one question almost always "Are you a citizen?". I think I have been asked where I'm headed. Refusing to answer a border patrol checkpoint when they ask if you are a citizen seems risky. I could see not answering the "where are you headed" question, especially after you established you are a citizen. Tell them, "It's none of your business, I'm a citizen!".
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Re: Baptist pastor beaten + tazed by Border patrol - 11 stitches

Postby smallpoxgirl » Fri 17 Apr 2009, 23:17:25

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Dawn', 'W')hen they asked to search the car we didn't object. I think they got a little crazy when they searched our take out food, and asked me to lift my shirt up so they could see my belly. I remember the female officer commenting about how small my belly was for being that pregnant.


Yeah. I learned that lesson years ago. Cop says "you don't mind if we make a quick search of your car do you?" I say "sure. I got nothing to hide." Two hours later, after they've sifted through and read all my mail, they start reading me the riot act about these two antique swords that were in my trunk because I was moving into a new apartment. I'm trying to explain to them that the swords are wall decorations, haven't been used in anger since the civil war, and really as far as I'm aware there haven't been a lot of drive by fencings in this neighborhood. Lesson learned. Anytime anybody says "You don't mind if we make a quick search do you?" the scripted response is "I do not consent to any searches." There's really no sense in volunteering to be harassed.
"We were standing on the edges
Of a thousand burning bridges
Sifting through the ashes every day
What we thought would never end
Now is nothing more than a memory
The way things were before
I lost my way" - OCMS
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Re: Baptist pastor beaten + tazed by Border patrol - 11 stitches

Postby mattduke » Sat 18 Apr 2009, 07:23:22

Another common technique is for the policeman to ask two questions simultaneously like, "You don't have any pot in there; you don't mind if we search your car do you?" The goal is to fool the citizen into granting permission for a search of his vehicle.
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Mexico, Cantarell, and Border Issues

Postby Jack » Wed 22 Jul 2009, 22:11:50

No doubt the following has been discussed. However, as time passes, situations develop, thus providing the opportunity to assess and evaluate plans and expectations for the future. Therefore, in that spirit, I propose we consider the impact of peak oil on the southern border region of the U.S.

We have some knowns. Cantarell, the big field owned and operated by PEMEX, is in decline. One source suggests a 35% annual rate of decline. LINK 1 . In addition, Mexico derives as much as 40% of its budget from PEMEX. LINK 2 . Cantarell represents a large part - perhaps around half - of total PEMEX production. LINK 3

It is worth noting that remittance payments from those in the U.S. to Mexico have declined. LINK 4

Based on the foregoing, let us consider Mexico.

Presently, Mexico faces an ongoing insurgency. LINK 5

So...will Mexico become a failed state, with no effective central government? I suspect the answer is yes. Timing is difficult to apply. I suspect 5 years and perhaps less.

If Mexico does descend into anarchy, large numbers are likely to seek escape into the U.S. If we suppose a slow recovery (or continued decline, as with Japan), then the U.S. will have neither jobs nor assistance money to provide. However, it seems unlikely that the flow of desperate economic refugees can be fully stopped. In my opinion, this suggests increased violent criminal activity within the U.S. In addition, their is the possibility of heightened ethnic conflict, likewise IMO.

So - what do you think? And, what is your working timeline?
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