[Cid_Yama]

<b>Israeli troops dance as they await the order for a Gaza war</b>

ALONG THE ISRAEL-GAZA STRIP BORDER — In a muddy field overlooking the smoke-blackened Gaza Strip skyline on Tuesday, young soldiers from an Israeli tank unit linked arms with euphoric civilians and joined them in the hora, a circular dance, in anticipation of a possible ground invasion of the Palestinian territory.

Far overhead, a pair of Israeli Apache helicopters fired on a target inside Gaza, unleashed diversionary flares and disappeared to the north. Elsewhere in the autonomous Palestinian region, Israeli jets, helicopters and ships pummeled the area with new strikes against dozens of targets.

On the Israeli side of the frontier, the prospect of an expanded war unleashed a surge of emotions. Huge speakers blasted religious songs from the tops of two beat-up cars that brought dozens of civilians to cheer on some of the thousands of troops who would take part in any possible ground invasion.
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[Keith_McClary]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('eastbay', '
')Nice avatar, btw. I stole it from you and will use it someday.

[Cid_Yama]

Some 7,000 Iranian students in the city of Isfahan have volunteered to fight for Palestine against Israel while more students are signing up in Tehran, the Fars news agency said on Tuesday.

On Sunday, Iran's religious leader, Ayatollah Khomeini, issued a religious decree calling for a jihad against Israel for its air strikes on the Hamas-controlled Gaza Strip that started on Saturday leaving around 360 Palestinians dead and over 1,500 wounded.

"In response to the supreme leader's orders for a jihad (holy war), students from the bassij militia are going to register . . . to go to fight in the occupied Palestinian territories," Fars cited Alireza Zahedi as saying on Monday.
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[Madpaddy]

Cid_Yama wrote,

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')ome 7,000 Iranian students in the city of Isfahan have volunteered to fight for Palestine against Israel while more students are signing up in Tehran, the Fars news agency said on Tuesday.

[Borokrom]

Is in fact trure that to go back to much in history won't help to find the resolution, even because even some Israely archeologist now admit doubts about Jews population real origins, and about where the Biblical israel was located.

But modern troubles are that a land called Palestine it'e been given by a long pressure of lobbies to a part of Jews people that persuit a dream to have a Nation. Madagascar was a place as well that suppose to guest te Zionist, but the choice finally went for Palestine as belived the promise land.

Would be interesting to see why (if the Jews was so precious, productive and intelligent) another land is not given to them. Maybe United States could have give them Oregon, or UK could have give them Scotland.

But the point is that at the time, with quite dark decision (see BALFOUR agreement) the Society of Nation (ancestor of ONU), under pressure of UK an USA gave to the Zionists organizers the permission to go in Palestine anr try out.

Only lately Jews took interests in Israel as homeland, in fact despit much effort, no jews went to Israel till after the second World War.

I remind you that colonials wars went on till the '60 for all the major country like France as well.

So at the time there was still a strong impulse to Colonialism.

In fact the situation is simply as that, Isreal is basically a post colonialism situation, and despite the effort and the tecnology, the massacres and the violence, soon or later Isreal won't survive.

At this point I would like to think that is better to have 2 Nations, Isreal and Palestine, and I would like that the WALL taller and stronger, but that the land equally shared between them people.

But is not like that, Zionism want all at all cost.
And they do not feel guilty tu use violence (but they do not like it back) becasue they do not consider life of not-jews important.

We are witnessing a big crime, like other crimes that are going on in the world.
And who defend this crime can find all the excuses, but this do not change the fact that is a crime.
Just a bloody crime, made by the strong to the weak, I do not see any bravery or proud to fight with tanks again stones.

The people that are now dancing around Gaza waiting for the ground invasion are just a bunch of bullies who knows that they will easily destroy and kill with no risks.

With the behalf and the money of Americans, costantly pushed into sensells behavior by the strong lobbies that influence Washington policy. What a shame, for a great county like USA, in the dream on many as a symbol of freedom.

Borokrom

[Borokrom]

FALLING INTO THE MORAL ABYSS
BY Titus North.
Novelist and an adjunct professor in the University of Pittsburgh's Political Science department



The gradual process of ethnic cleansing in the occupied Palestinian territories is accelerating, and with it so is the moral culpability of Israel and the supporters of its policies in the United States. More and more people from the mainstream of Israeli politics are voicing alarm. In the Israeli newspaper Haaretz, former Knesset Speaker Avraham Burg compared the situation in Israel today to Germany on the eve of Nazis coming to power. Writing for The Huffington Post, former Israeli peace negotiator Daniel Levy likened Israel to a drunk and the US to a friend who gives them bottle of vodka and keys to his car. Even current Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, who has ordered incessant attacks on Gaza since coming to power, has called recent attacks by Jewish settlers on Palestinians in the West Bank "pogroms."

A state founded by Holocaust survivors should be a beacon of morality, not a black hole for it. Supporters of Israeli policy (and I distinguish between support for the Israeli people and support for its government's policies) often justify their support by saying that Israel is the only democracy in the region. Leaving aside certain problematic aspects of that claim, I wonder if these people have ever thought of the implications of Israel, as a democracy, being engaged in continual violations of international law and human rights. Israelis, benefiting from a press that is far more open to the truth about government's policies than the American media, know a great deal about what the leaders they elect are doing, yet they continue to elect them. Thus, the Israeli public has culpability for their government's crimes that citizens under a dictatorship would not have.

Of course, the Israeli government could never have pursued these policies without the money, weapons, and diplomatic cover provided by the US, in particular the US Congress. After all, it is Congress's powers over the "purse strings" rather than the President acting as commander-in-chief that has had a more direct bearing on the colonization of Palestinian territories by Jewish settlers. So many members of Congress have taken money from organizations effectively in exchange for supporting Israeli government interests. So many members of Congress have accepted all-expense paid junkets to Israel, ostensibly for educational purposes. With too few exceptions, they are fully complicit in Israeli government crimes, including war crimes.

What about the American public? I would say that the American public is largely in the dark about what is going on, thanks to a media which makes criticism of Israeli policy practically taboo. Of course, this gives the media a special culpability. Still, there are many Americans who do know the score and fail to speak out. This is particularly true with Gentiles. Let's face it, although Jews make up only a few percent of the US population, the bulk of the outspoken critics of Israeli policy in this country seem to be Jewish-Americans. It may be that Gentiles are afraid to speak out for fear of being labeled "anti-Semitic," but I say that as long as you are not anti-Semitic then you should not be afraid. In fact, if you are a true friend of the Israeli people then you should stand with those in their beleaguered peace movement.

It does Israelis no more good to control Palestinian land, exploit its resources, and inflict misery on its people than it did the US any good to do the same to Iraqis. Most of us know that the crimes our country committed in Iraq were detrimental to our future, so why would we support the Israeli government when it engages in the same self-destructive behavior. My question to Israel's "friends" in Congress would be, "is that what friends are for?" Of course not. Most of our members of Congress (and here is the big surprise!) are too self-serving to care about the impact of their votes so long as it helps them raise money for their next election. They are the kind of "friends" Israel's mother should have warned it against -- if only we were Israel's mother.

The only real threat to Israel's existence comes not from Iran or Hizballah, but from a further loss of morality. It comes from attacking and threatening its neighbors. It comes from dehumanizing the indigenous people of the West Bank and replacing them with religious fanatics. As described by Leonard Fein in the Forward, some settlers view the Israeli government as their "enemy" and have called to establish a "Kingdom of Judea" in the West Bank. It comes from turning Gaza into a massive ghetto and slowly starving it, and now more than anything from bombing it into rubble.

We must condemn Israel's attack on Gaza. I know that it is customary for many to equally condemn both sides whenever violence flares up in the conflict, but there is nothing equal between the two sides. The Palestinians have for decades been subjected to occupation, disappropriation, assassination and siege, always with massive suffering to civilians, and are expected to accept it without lifting a finger. Should the Palestinians put up any resistance, Israel feels free to launch any scale of attack, secure in the knowledge that at most it will be subject to calls for "restraint" and condemnation of violence on "both sides." While I do not like the rockets that get fired from Gaza, as long as we as Americans provide the military, financial and diplomatic support that makes the Israeli occupation and siege possible I feel that we as Americans are in no position to condemn the Palestinian resistance. Remember, we as a society idolize our own forefathers who fought a violent resistance against British colonial rulers who paled in comparison in terms of brutality and repression to those the Palestinians face. Our government must withdrawal all support from Israel and instead should deliver desperately needed humanitarian aid directly into Gaza.

With the US heading into the biggest economic crisis of our lifetimes, the Israeli government must realize that it cannot take American financial and military aid for granted. The Palestinians have offered so many concessions. Israel needs to accept their generous offer before it falls headlong into the abyss.

Titus North is a novelist and an adjunct professor in the University of Pittsburgh's Political Science department. He has worked for the Thomson Corporation since 1989 as a political and financial analyst and currently produces a daily English language digest of the Japanese financial press for Thomson. He was the Green Party Candidate for US Congress in 2006 and 2008.

Have a look as well to http://www.ifamericansknew.org/ for some interesting statistics to undestand better the scenario.

Borokrom

[niknak]

You are correct.
The goal is ethnic cleansing of Arabs, while bringing fault on arabs for attacking Izrael, though the real attackers are false flag.

Did you know 1 million 200 thousand irak FAMILIES have been killed already?

The PTB (The Big Don's who run the world mafia system) HATE arabs and they hate Israel just a little less. They have hated arabs for a thousand years, they have tried to wipe them out for dozens of centuries, never quite made it.

They are masters of disguise making it look like Izrael is the aggressor.

Yes they are bullies. Arabs know this, but going to fight in Gaza will make it escalate, this is what was counted on.

You know, two months ago before there were any rattling of sabers, highest officials in Washington said OBAMA IS GOING TO HAVE A CRISES, ok, then the missiles start into Izrael.
Convince me the intelligence agencies did not do this.

[Pretorian]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kam3Oen', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')'m not trying to be cold. But 300 dead? In this same span, 1000 have died in Darfur. Likely thousands in Zimbabwe and North Korea. It's nothing compared to the tens of thousands every HOUR in a couple of years.

[Borokrom]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')hat's not a joke. Mass media is sooo anti-semitic these days one might think their owners are jew-haters. Have they forgotten the Holocoast? Is there are anything sacred left in their souls? Millions of Jews were squirming like worms in Nazi's microwaves and slow-cookers, and now this. Perhaps they are neo-Nazis? I think this matter should be thoroughly investigated.

[Mesuge]

eastbay, Nickel, Borokrom and others>
thanks for your rational posts on this topic.

I'm kind of perplexed from the current propaganda,
seldomely the newsmedia inform the public that:

1/ Hamas won democratic elections, which were attempted/sabotaged by Fatah, Israel-US and several other european and local major powers

2/ Those ever repeated headlines "attack on Hamas with some civilian causalities" is a plain lie, since Gaza authority office staffers, police etc. ARE indeed all civilian infrustructure under int. law and also in common sense..

--

However, and in the same vein I was quite suprised that CNN gave quite a big coverage about the rammed humanitarian ship bound to Gaza with their own reporter and McKinney on board..

[Fredrik]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('niknak', 'Y')ou are correct.
The goal is ethnic cleansing of Arabs, while bringing fault on arabs for attacking Izrael, though the real attackers are false flag.

[dorlomin]

Had the Sudanese government killed 300 of its own people in the Western or Southern provinces it would have not made a dent on the international news agenda, and all these fine posters keen to line up and pour there scorn on Israel today would have had zero interest in the story.


If you are to recieve international sympathy its important to get lucky and get the right opressors.

[Nickel]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('timmac', 'I')srael has signed many peace deals with them and followed thru with all the deals in each peace treaty over the years [many years], but each time Hamas breaks the deals and starts the war all over again

[Nickel]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Madpaddy', 'C')ool, students versus the Golani Brigade of the IDF. I wonder if they would last even 60 seconds.

[Mesuge]

dorlomin>
Hm, in the global sub conscience (euroatlantic whites, arabs, asians) are the subsaharan peoples regarded as the ultimate bottom. That has been the rule of the game for past x centuries/milenia. I'm not endorsing this view, but this is sadly proven historical account (slave trade, direct colonialism, IMF/WB, ..) .

So, obviously a conflict where 2nd - 3rd tier Palestinians (based on the outskirts of world's remaining fossil energy wider area) are being opressed by 1st tier Israelis for 60yrs (w. a little help from global hegemon aka host) you ALWAYS get a lot of traction in int. and regional press and politics.

So, your "argument" is a non argument in this debate..

[Nickel]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pretorian', 'T')hat's not a joke. Mass media is sooo anti-semitic these days one might think their owners are jew-haters.

[Nickel]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kam3Oen', 'I')sn't it funny, the way the UN passed resolutions against Israel for occupying "Palestine" (which itself was previously occupied by Egypt and Jordan), but has never passed resolutions against the Moroccan occupation of Western Sahara (an occupation which has killed more people, than the one which began in 1967), or the Turkish occupation of Northern Cyprus. The UN has it's standards, and there's two of them.

[Nickel]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Keith_McClary', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Eli', 'T')he Israelis have too much to lose, their dream of a secular Jewish state is at stake and they will never give up on that dream.

[Nickel]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Mesuge', '1')/ Hamas won democratic elections, which were attempted/sabotaged by Fatah, Israel-US and several other european and local major powers

2/ Those ever repeated headlines "attack on Hamas with some civilian causalities" is a plain lie, since Gaza authority office staffers, police etc. ARE indeed all civilian infrustructure under int. law and also in common sense..

[3aidlillahi]

One of the interesting points I found out about Israeli demographics yesterday was the Haredim. The Haredim are commonly known as "Ultra-Orthodox". They are extremely religious, mainly study only Jewish Law and multiply like none other. They have on average about 7 children per woman. The average in Israel is a mere 2.6-2.7. Even for Muslim women, it's only 4.0.

Haredim make up about 10% of the total population or about 15% of the Jewish population. This means that the average non-Haredi woman has only 2.0 children, which is below the level needed for population stabilization (ie. they are going into decline). Non-Haredim make up about 70% of the population, and as Kam has pointed out they are the more Zionist of the population. In just one generation, we're likely to see the Haredim double or even triple as a percentage of the population. Combine that with the non-Jewish segments and the Zionist entity of Israel will be in the minority.

Further, due to their religiousness, the Haredim have a 60% unemployment rate. Rather than work, they are subsidized by the Israeli government heavily in order to study Jewish Law. As their numbers continue to grow, it will be an ever increasing burden upon the population of Israel. A nation that does not work can not survive.

Israel will soon be a welfare state as the population growth from Haredim increases while the non-Haredim population growth decreases.