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THE MicroSoft Windows Thread (merged)

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General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.

Re: Windows 7 Will track your every movement!

Unread postby jasonraymondson » Thu 27 Nov 2008, 18:46:14

Vista isn't that bad, if you have the hardware to run it.

My biggest complaints.
    Slow has hell to copy files
    Elevated mode to access ipconfig
    The built in zip extraction system crashes (ALL THE FOCKING TIME)
    Randomly kill programs at night while I sleep

The other night I went to bed and forgot to save a design for a website I am working on, and when I woke up, vista closed the program and I lost all of my work. Didn't shut down, just closed that program.

Now Millennium Edition... that SUCKED
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Re: Windows 7 Will track your every movement!

Unread postby TWilliam » Thu 27 Nov 2008, 19:07:40

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jasonraymondson', 'V')ista isn't that bad, if you have the hardware to run it.


Ahhh yes... Vista... the best of Windows CE, Windows ME and Windows NT all rolled into one...

[video width=400 height=350]http://www.youtube.com/v/-6FnE6y9JIM&hl=en&fs=1[/video]
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Re: Windows 7 Will track your every movement!

Unread postby da23 » Thu 27 Nov 2008, 20:09:40

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TWilliam', 'I') have absolutely no rules defined in my iptables, yet a check at grc.com's ShieldsUP! port probe shows my machine to be completely 'stealthed' (i.e. non-accessible for exploit), because I have no web services of any kind running.

An additional 'built-in' defense of Linux is simply the fact that there are so many different versions of it, with an effectively infinite number of configurations available.


That's probably because Stevies' site doesn't use 'exploits' to test your firewall, it checks for open ports and tries to tunnel your firewall.
The script was written for windows users to make them happy or sad.

You did great until the end btw agree but! the whole ethos of the linux/gnu thing is the kernel is open, his fly is down :oops:

they can sit and wait in your printer if you know machine code like cDc :P
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Re: Windows 7 Will track your every movement!

Unread postby smallpoxgirl » Thu 27 Nov 2008, 21:42:49

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jasonraymondson', 'V')ista isn't that bad, if you have the hardware to run it.


I have "the hardware to run it", but in my experience it's horribly unstable. I could go weeks or even months without an actual crash on xp. With vista, I get it at least once a day. It sucks because every time I force a cold boot, the system has to rebuild the RAID array. I'm sure it's hard on the drives to be doing that every day.

The only thing I like about Vista is the snipping tool. Otherwise, XP is a far superior OS IMHO. I thought I was going to be doing voice recognition on that computer, but it's turned out not to be the case. I may just install Ubuntu.
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Re: Windows 7 Will track your every movement!

Unread postby jasonraymondson » Thu 27 Nov 2008, 23:20:12

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jasonraymondson', 'V')ista isn't that bad, if you have the hardware to run it.
I have "the hardware to run it", but in my experience it's horribly unstable. I could go weeks or even months without an actual crash on xp. With vista, I get it at least once a day. It sucks because every time I force a cold boot, the system has to rebuild the RAID array. I'm sure it's hard on the drives to be doing that every day.
The only thing I like about Vista is the snipping tool. Otherwise, XP is a far superior OS IMHO. I thought I was going to be doing voice recognition on that computer, but it's turned out not to be the case. I may just install Ubuntu.

While I love ubuntu, it is not capable. There is no software. I need photoshop, Avid, After Effects, Fireworks, and Illustrator.
and no, GIMP is not a replacement for photoshop.

I like Ubuntu, because it appeals to my inner geek. But if you do something other than programming or security for a living, than linux is useless.
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Re: Windows 7 Will track your every movement!

Unread postby TWilliam » Thu 27 Nov 2008, 23:31:06

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('da23', 'T')hat's probably because Stevies' site doesn't use 'exploits' to test your firewall, it checks for open ports and tries to tunnel your firewall. The script was written for windows users to make them happy or sad.
You did great until the end btw agree but! the whole ethos of the linux/gnu thing is the kernel is open, his fly is down :oops:
they can sit and wait in your printer if you know machine code like cDc :P

The point is that if there are no open ports with running services, then there's nothing to exploit. How are you going to 'sit and wait in [my] printer' if my print server ignores any and all attempts to connect to it from the network? You have to get it talking before you can exploit it, which it ain't gonna do unless I specifically configure it to do so.
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Re: Windows 7 Will track your every movement!

Unread postby TWilliam » Fri 28 Nov 2008, 00:11:49

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jasonraymondson', 'W')hile I love ubuntu, it is not capable. There is no software. I need photoshop, Avid, After Effects, Fireworks, and Illustrator.

and no, GIMP is not a replacement for photoshop.

It's quite capable, and there is tons of software. Just because you're accustomed to using those particular products doesn't mean there are no capable alternatives in the Open Source world; it's simply a matter of what you're used to.

And while it is true that GIMP is not a replacement for Photoshop, there's very little that one can accomplish with the latter that can't also be done with the former, except perhaps for some more obscure and little used abilities that only professional design people are likely to be aware of. But if you need those capabilities then by all means use those products. If you can afford them, then you can likely afford the necessary hardware to run them and the additional software and precautions to keep that hardware safe from compromise.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'B')ut if you do something other than programming or security for a living, than linux is useless.

Simply not true. Plenty of mature and robust software for office productivity (especially those all-important tools, 'Solitaire' and 'Mahjong'), graphic design, data storage and access, medical and scientific research, music/video production and editing, enterprise management, bookkeeping, inventory, customer relations, medical records, CAD/CAM and related fields, web design, website hosting... just about any endeavor that involves computers likely has at least one functional Open Source application available. So to say there's 'no software' for Linux is just plain incorrect...
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Re: Windows 7 Will track your every movement!

Unread postby jasonraymondson » Fri 28 Nov 2008, 01:11:58

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TWilliam', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jasonraymondson', 'W')hile I love ubuntu, it is not capable. There is no software. I need photoshop, Avid, After Effects, Fireworks, and Illustrator.

and no, GIMP is not a replacement for photoshop.

It's quite capable, and there is tons of software. Just because you're accustomed to using those particular products doesn't mean there are no capable alternatives in the Open Source world; it's simply a matter of what you're used to.

And while it is true that GIMP is not a replacement for Photoshop, there's very little that one can accomplish with the latter that can't also be done with the former, except perhaps for some more obscure and little used abilities that only professional design people are likely to be aware of. But if you need those capabilities then by all means use those products. If you can afford them, then you can likely afford the necessary hardware to run them and the additional software and precautions to keep that hardware safe from compromise.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'B')ut if you do something other than programming or security for a living, than linux is useless.

Simply not true. Plenty of mature and robust software for office productivity (especially those all-important tools, 'Solitaire' and 'Mahjong'), graphic design, data storage and access, medical and scientific research, music/video production and editing, enterprise management, bookkeeping, inventory, customer relations, medical records, CAD/CAM and related fields, web design, website hosting... just about any endeavor that involves computers likely has at least one functional Open Source application available. So to say there's 'no software' for Linux is just plain incorrect...



1) No there is not and you are wrong fan boy. The industries that pay money, agree!

2) In the world of video production, there is nothing at all in the linux world currently made, that even gets within 2 million miles of after effects! NOTHING!!! If there was, I would have left windows with a smile on my face.

3) $this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'P')lenty of mature and robust software for office productivity
Bullshit!!! Open office, while nice and free, does not come remotely close to anything in the office suite. Especially the all powerful Excel (calc is a focking joke) Database software -- sure I will agree with that

4) $this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')o to say there's 'no software' for Linux is just plain incorrect No, it is 100% correct. Their is virtually no software that does not get its ass kicked by its windows couter part.

5) The only reason linux is so much more virus free and hacker safe, is because the hackers, and other dumbfucks do what they do because it is profitable. It is not profitable to attack linux users!!! The same reason that MAC claims to be so secure and safe. Nobody bothers wasting their time learning the exploits.

6) More users = more money. What rules this world.

I love linux, but if you want to exist in the business world and be able to operate in any sort of functional level with your clients / customers... then you have to use windows!!!
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Re: Windows 7 Will track your every movement!

Unread postby TWilliam » Fri 28 Nov 2008, 04:05:55

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jasonraymondson', '1')) No there is not and you are wrong fan boy. The industries that pay money, agree!

2) In the world of video production, there is nothing at all in the linux world currently made, that even gets within 2 million miles of after effects! NOTHING!!! If there was, I would have left windows with a smile on my face.

Really? Maybe you should clue some of these folks in then...

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')tar Wars: Episode II, Linux made Yoda a light saber-wielding action figure. In Lord of the Rings 2, waves of Orcs attacking the colossal fortress at Helm's Deep are not thousands of human extras, but digital actors created using Linux. To consumers, Linux may rank third after Windows and Macintosh, but Linux dominates motion pictures more than anyone but studio insiders may realize. It has been used to produce more than 30 blockbuster films, including Lord of the Rings, Star Wars: Episode II, Harry Potter, Shrek, and Titanic.

In short, the big news in Hollywood about Linux is it is no longer big news. Linux has won not only renderfarm servers, but the artist desktops of the top studios. It's hard to find a large studio that does not rely upon Linux as its primary animation and special effects OS, and many smaller film studios have adopted Linux, too.

At the software level, studios are using Linux versions of some of the leading commercial applications for 3D animation, compositing, special effects, and rendering — Alias Maya, Apple Shake, and Pixar RenderMan. Internally, the major studios have ported millions of lines of proprietary code to Linux and are creating their new programs in Linux.

----

Some Motion Picture Studios Using Primarily Linux

Digital Domain
Disney
Double Negative
DreamWorks
Flash Film Works
Hammerhead
Industrial Light & Magic
Rhythm & Hues
Sony Pictures Imageworks
Tippett Studio
Weta Digital


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jasonraymondson', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'P')lenty of mature and robust software for office productivity
Bullshit!!! Open office, while nice and free, does not come remotely close to anything in the office suite.

Apparently IBM considers it a worthy alternative...

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jasonraymondson', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')o to say there's 'no software' for Linux is just plain incorrect No, it is 100% correct. Their is virtually no software that does not get its ass kicked by its windows couter part.
The evidence to the contrary is freely available, and in abundance. I leave it to those that are interested to find it...

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jasonraymondson', 'T')he only reason linux is so much more virus free and hacker safe, is because the hackers, and other Fark do what they do because it is profitable. It is not profitable to attack linux users!!! The same reason that MAC claims to be so secure and safe. Nobody bothers wasting their time learning the exploits.
I disagree. Why do you suppose most hackers use Linux to learn their trade? I'll tell you why... because it's through studying a well-designed, secure system that they come to understand how to identify exploits in one that isn't. And I'm talking the real hackers here, not the 'script-kiddies' who profit from their work by exploiting Windoze with their discoveries.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jasonraymondson', 'I') love linux, but if you want to exist in the business world and be able to operate in any sort of functional level with your clients / customers... then you have to use windows!!!
Again, patently untrue...

The only downside to Linux is the fact that it requires an IQ higher than your average potato to make optimum use of it, unlike Bill's Point-&-Click Paradise... :P

(Which is, of course, why it will likely never dominate in the consumer desktop sphere...)
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Re: Windows 7 Will track your every movement!

Unread postby smallpoxgirl » Fri 28 Nov 2008, 06:16:19

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jasonraymondson', 'O')pen office, while nice and free, does not come remotely close to anything in the office suite. Especially the all powerful Excel (calc is a focking joke).


Boy. I couldn't disagree more. Calc runs all of my excel spreadsheets just fine. The only significant difference I've seen between the two is that Word works a bit better with Dragon Naturally Speaking. Even with Word, the DNS integration is pretty mediocre. With DNS, it ends up best to dictate into wordpad and then cut and paste any way.

What are you doing with Excel that you can't do with calc?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jasonraymondson', ' ')The same reason that MAC claims to be so secure and safe. Nobody bothers wasting their time learning the exploits.

That's kind of a silly argument. How many commercial web servers out there loaded with credit card records are running Linux. Lots I think.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') love linux, but if you want to exist in the business world and be able to operate in any sort of functional level with your clients / customers... then you have to use windows!!!

I think that's becoming a lot less true. About the only application that I use that's not available for Linux is Dragon. Otherwise I really don't think there's any other application I use that's not available in Linux. The vast majority of what I do with a computer is surf the web. I suspect that Linux is probably a more stable platform for me to do that. Even with electronic medical records, there are a lot more linux compatible systems becoming available.
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Re: Windows 7 Will track your every movement!

Unread postby Arsenal » Fri 28 Nov 2008, 08:51:58

jasonraymondson

Please find me a windows system that does the following for under $300 bucks (not including the computer)...

1. Full motion video capture with internet playback capability.

2. Temperature/humidity/solar/wind/barometer/etc logging.

3. Picture gallery that does not get hacked in a heartbeat. While there are sites like Flicker, having ones own pictures on my server is comforting.

4. Network and computer monitoring that will notify you of any failures via text or email.

Those are just a few programs on my Linux system that probably can be run from Windows but would cost an arm and a leg or just plain suck. I know from experience that my camera system is more stable than the $1000 windows capture software that I have used.

While I am not trying to get into a pissing match about Windows vs Linux, there are benefits to both. Windows integration (Active Directory) is far more advanced than Linux and is needed in a corporate environment. Some user programs are better in Windows but cost 500 bucks to get them legally. Did you pay for your Photoshop?? On a server level... Nothing really beats Linux for stability and network throughput. That is why 90% percent of the servers you hit on the internet are Linux...

Everything has its uses.. Quit bashing one and making absolute statements.
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Re: Windows 7 Will track your every movement!

Unread postby Dezakin » Fri 28 Nov 2008, 09:50:53

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('seldom_seen', 'F')rom what I understand Microsoft has teamed up with the Government's TIA (Total Information Awareness) program.

Image

They will be selling Win7 at substantially lower costs than other versions of Windows as the price is offset by the huge government contract they have landed to sell the user data to the Government program. This data will also be packaged and sold to Corporations and Marketing companies or even foreign governments.

The Windows 7 keystroke logger will basically record every tap of the keyboard in to a government database. Furthermore the government will be able to decrypt all encrypted communications given its access to secret key information through keystroke logging.

The TIA office says that with Windows 7 and it's partnership with Google analytics we should see a substantial reduction in terrorist threats.

As someone that worked in Windows security for eight years with liasons in NSA and various other intelligence agencies, I can confidently say that you haven't the sleightist idea what the hell you're talking about. There is no conspiracy to track everyones movement, and there are huge concerns within the company about ensuring privacy. PR failures cost money and get people fired.
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Re: Windows 7 Will track your every movement!

Unread postby dbruning » Fri 28 Nov 2008, 13:19:44

Then I hope a ton of people got fired for releasing Vista.

What a piece of crap. And a disaster from a marketing perspective.

You can be sure many think as I do; we will not be upgrading until we are absolutely forced to. Why be a Microsoft beta tester...everything they release seems to be perma-beta these days.

Microsoft is in business to make money...which is fine. But if they release another OS as flawed as Vista, I hope their software empire crumbles around their greedy little feet.
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Re: Windows 7 Will track your every movement!

Unread postby GoghGoner » Fri 28 Nov 2008, 13:43:11

I use Mandriva 2009 at home now. I was using PCLINUXOS until they fell behind the curve a little with the upgrades. At work, I use XP but I have used Red Hat without any major issues.

K9Copy works great shrinking DVDs on my Linux machine. MySQL is a solid database. You have great scientific and math applications (price a SAS license as opposed to an R license). Linux and MACs are also more secure (who cares why) and you don't have to use resources on bloated service packs or anti-virus. If you have older hardware then Linux may be the ONLY way to go.
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Re: Windows 7 Will track your every movement!

Unread postby smallpoxgirl » Fri 28 Nov 2008, 13:51:41

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dbruning', 'M')icrosoft is in business to make money...which is fine. But if they release another OS as flawed as Vista, I hope their software empire crumbles around their greedy little feet.


Seems to me they are running into a huge problem with diminishing returns. MS can only continue making money if they find ways to improve their products. There's really not anything that XP needs in terms of functionality. If you were going to improve it, the biggest thing would be to streamline it and make it use less resources. Nobody's going to buy a new OS just so it uses less resources, so they tack on all this crap that exacts a big premium and doesn't really do anything. Vista is kind of like the 50's when cars started sprouting fins and chrome accoutrement. MS has built this huge army of programmers that write code every day, but their OS has long passed the point where adding code to it improves anything. Basically MS has jumped the shark. They're profitability has become dependent on strong arming people into buying increasingly crappy operating systems, and crafting increasingly draconian licensing agreements in an effort to force people to pay for the same thing over and over.

Same thing with MS office BTW. There hasn't been a significant improvement in word processors or spreadsheets in 10 to 15 years. They keep selling new versions of Office by changing the data format every couple of years so it's not backwards compatible.
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Re: Windows 7 Will track your every movement!

Unread postby GoghGoner » Fri 28 Nov 2008, 14:02:37

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dbruning', 'M')icrosoft is in business to make money...which is fine. But if they release another OS as flawed as Vista, I hope their software empire crumbles around their greedy little feet.


If you were going to improve it, the biggest thing would be to streamline it and make it use less resources.


This is from Microsoft:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'D')ell Computer Corporation and Microsoft® have always worked closely together having benefited mutually generating strong growth for their respective products and services.


The hardware and the software companies are also working together against you. Hmmm.... reminds me of automobile and oil companies. This type of collusion needs to be regulated.
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Re: Windows 7 Will track your every movement!

Unread postby GoghGoner » Fri 28 Nov 2008, 14:09:02

How the world should work.

Microsoft and Dell would be working together to use less resources. Imagine a thin-client setup where monitors are terminals (anybody remember the eighties) and hardly anybody in the office has their own PC. I know some folks have done this with Linux distributions but Microsoft could have implemented this type of environment at the start if the model in which business thrives was somehow different. Not just different, but right. It is wrong to needlessly use more resources to generate more profit. The whole darn system is nuts. I am going to go cut off my ear again.
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Re: Windows 7 Will track your every movement!

Unread postby Dezakin » Fri 28 Nov 2008, 15:23:12

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dbruning', 'M')icrosoft is in business to make money...which is fine. But if they release another OS as flawed as Vista, I hope their software empire crumbles around their greedy little feet.


Seems to me they are running into a huge problem with diminishing returns. MS can only continue making money if they find ways to improve their products. There's really not anything that XP needs in terms of functionality.

You dont really need any more functionality than DOS I suppose, but suggesting that there are no more marketable features for an OS is just ignorant. There are a number of features that would be a very large improvement upon XP (or any OS.) Some are in Vista, and some wont be in any OS for a long time to come. Maybe you dont see any value add in LUA, Bitlocker, TPM support, CryptoAPI real entropy generation, Active directory policy management, etc... but these are market makers especially in a corporate environment and new orders are often predicated on new features that will be of zero value to people that dont understand them.
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Re: Windows 7 Will track your every movement!

Unread postby jasonraymondson » Fri 28 Nov 2008, 15:58:21

The ultimate goal of the operating enviroment world, is to make everything web based. All everyone will be doing is operating a terminal and all of their data will sit on a server that is open to the government.
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Re: Windows 7 Will track your every movement!

Unread postby TWilliam » Fri 28 Nov 2008, 16:26:47

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jasonraymondson', 'T')he ultimate goal of the operating enviroment world, is to make everything web based. All everyone will be doing is operating a terminal and all of their data will sit on a server that is open to the government.


And that's a great idea becauuuuuse... ???
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