In Russia stuff lasted forever, no advertising overhead and planned obsolescence. Problem was supply. No incentive to make enough so everybody could get one of whatever it was but quality was high (radio or washing machine or sewing machine or car).
How do you solve such a problem with all that bribing to get a pork chops or a car in short supply in socialist system as opposed to being heaped upon with endless consumer garbage on credit in a capitalist system?
If I could solve this conundrum I would get the nobel priize for peace and economics at the same time. Gorbi tried allowing only 5 people private enterprises but I doubt you could make cars or radios with so few people and who would know about your stuff without ads?
There is no perfect system and we should just give it up and all plant a garden and live in a monastery and pray as we will be dead before this argument will be settled and will need prayer more than politics in our own personal endgame.
The South Americans will hopefully succeed but "the poor will always be with us" I am sure and people will game the sastem and be corrupt so that conservative hard working types will get angry and fight any "handouts" to shirkers so it will go the other way in 10 -15 years.
PeakOil is You
THE Socialism Thread pt 2 (merged)
Re: "21st Century" Socialism proceeds apace
by galacticsurfer » Thu 23 Oct 2008, 06:49:04
"The horror, the horror"
-
galacticsurfer - Coal
- Posts: 449
- Joined: Wed 09 Nov 2005, 04:00:00
Re: "21st Century" Socialism proceeds apace
by Cloud9 » Thu 23 Oct 2008, 06:55:58
It was my understanding that Russian consumer goods sucked. You cannot compare an AK 47 to a washing machine. The AK was born out of the memories of the German invasion. The washing machine was constructed by a worker who was paid by a system that did not connect to quality controls because there was no competition in the market for the machine it produced.
If communism is such a great system why does it devolve into a thugocracy?
If communism is such a great system why does it devolve into a thugocracy?
-
Cloud9 - Intermediate Crude
- Posts: 2961
- Joined: Wed 26 Jul 2006, 03:00:00
Re: "21st Century" Socialism proceeds apace
by galacticsurfer » Thu 23 Oct 2008, 07:02:41
cloud9,
military had high priority with quality controls of course. At least consumer goods were simple with standard replacement parts. Take a 50s car anyhwere as example. Any Joe could fix it if he was worth his salt. Nowadays you need a tech degree just to look under the hood. If Russia remained at that earlier level and we go back to that regardless of economic system that would be better.
military had high priority with quality controls of course. At least consumer goods were simple with standard replacement parts. Take a 50s car anyhwere as example. Any Joe could fix it if he was worth his salt. Nowadays you need a tech degree just to look under the hood. If Russia remained at that earlier level and we go back to that regardless of economic system that would be better.
"The horror, the horror"
-
galacticsurfer - Coal
- Posts: 449
- Joined: Wed 09 Nov 2005, 04:00:00
Re: "21st Century" Socialism proceeds apace
by Munqi » Thu 23 Oct 2008, 08:21:04
Why is it always hard line communism vs hard line capitalism?
There are plenty of countries that take the good out of both and these are the best societies in the world. Canada, Norway, Sweden and Finland are good examples.
In Finland everyone has free healthcare, free education and thats not the only thing. The son of the bus driver goes trough the exact same schools as the son of the president.
That is equality. That is freedom. You can hide behind your "free market/small goverment" bullshit but the truth is that america is a class society and you want it to stay that way because it costs you (the upper class) less.
There are plenty of countries that take the good out of both and these are the best societies in the world. Canada, Norway, Sweden and Finland are good examples.
In Finland everyone has free healthcare, free education and thats not the only thing. The son of the bus driver goes trough the exact same schools as the son of the president.
That is equality. That is freedom. You can hide behind your "free market/small goverment" bullshit but the truth is that america is a class society and you want it to stay that way because it costs you (the upper class) less.
-
Munqi - Lignite
- Posts: 288
- Joined: Sun 04 May 2008, 03:00:00
- Location: Finland
Re: "21st Century" Socialism proceeds apace
by pana_burda » Thu 23 Oct 2008, 12:32:54
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'P')roduce only the best product possible aimed at longevity not obsolescence and resources are not wasted.
Capitalism is parasitic. It is a cancer on humanity and the planet.
Capitalism is parasitic. It is a cancer on humanity and the planet.
Perhaps you haven´t realized yet it would´d be quite difficult to communicate to/with each other through smoke signals or by the drum beats, today, haven´t you?
By the way, I wouldn´t be that smart to argue with someone, who is telling me he´s stuck in a traffic jam and the old lady sitting in the next seat of the bus, just slipped off the stinkiest and noisiest rear "winds", just because you are at a different location and reading in a newspaper that a new and alternate driveway was inaugurated that precise day, and traffic jams are simply things of the past, would you?. Of course, that "inauguration", figuratively speaking .....
I mean, the least I could do is to get me the passangers list and if such old lady indeed is riding it up, chances are that person could be correct in all his assertions, since that person´s not to gain a thing out of the reality he´s trying to get to you, while he´s still able to do it.
¿¿That the pres-ident of your country is plainly another piece of crap??? ....., that´s sand but from another box.
Ahhh ....., almost forgot, IF I am wrong in all my assertions and "political" perspectives, why is that the lady running with the rep anti-candidate, just said the last option to be analised up against our dictator would be the military one?
Maybe she didn´t quite recall the numerous violations to the interamerican chart, this puppet here has achieved along his ten years at "office" and that also he signed it up, before this NEW agenda (the pro military intervention one) was brought up to his attention.
Or perhaps you have a better explanation?
-
pana_burda - Tar Sands
- Posts: 507
- Joined: Tue 11 Sep 2007, 03:00:00
- Location: In freefall speed right down to the claws of the devil
Re: "21st Century" Socialism proceeds apace
by pana_burda » Thu 23 Oct 2008, 12:42:23
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')hy is it always hard line communism vs hard line capitalism?
I would´d wished that was our dilemma but the problem goes much farther than that and passes through building a brand new empire using the custom taylored energy/economic crisis, as its mean and oil as its weapon.
I would say our dilemma is the same as Ecuador had when Bucaran won the elections but lose his power because he didn´t know or wasn´t aware the bearded anchor he needed to remain at it, was located in some caribbean island. Simple!!
-
pana_burda - Tar Sands
- Posts: 507
- Joined: Tue 11 Sep 2007, 03:00:00
- Location: In freefall speed right down to the claws of the devil
Re: "21st Century" Socialism proceeds apace
by Nickel » Thu 23 Oct 2008, 15:23:01
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cid_Yama', 'I') look at it this way. I would like to live in a world where no one loses an eye or a limb or a family member that could have been saved if only they had access to antibiotics or a heathcare worker.
I would like to live in a world where everyone has the opportunity to learn how the world works and gain the education necessary to not be exploited and provide a living wage for themselves.
How can a world where everyone is healthy and educated, not be a better world?
I would like to live in a world where everyone has the opportunity to learn how the world works and gain the education necessary to not be exploited and provide a living wage for themselves.
How can a world where everyone is healthy and educated, not be a better world?
Hear, hear. Well said. Happy to sit on the left with you in this assembly of the Republic of Letters.
-
Nickel - Heavy Crude
- Posts: 1927
- Joined: Tue 26 Jun 2007, 03:00:00
- Location: The Canada of America
Re: "21st Century" Socialism proceeds apace
by Nickel » Thu 23 Oct 2008, 15:30:22
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pana_burda', 'I') assume you can read some Spanish...
No, Panny, we're anglos.
Nous ne lisons pas les langues des autres. 
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pana_burda', 'H')ey, believe me, I am FAR from being evil but I will NEVER get tired of trying to give a BETTER and more realistic approach to OUR true reality. The rest is up to your intelligence.
No no. Your English is so bad! The adjectives you needed to use were "greedy" and "self-interested". They might be "better" and "more realistic" in literal Spanish, but you need to use finesse in your translations.
-
Nickel - Heavy Crude
- Posts: 1927
- Joined: Tue 26 Jun 2007, 03:00:00
- Location: The Canada of America
