[GeneralGreen]

Well these people certainly don't look malnutritioned.
Anyway i don't have much sympathy for these folks...jobs are still around 'I'll bet 100 dollars these people in that trailer are getting some form of government assistance.

[Canuk]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PrairieMule', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('veliger', 'T')he woman in the CRV is a perfect poster woman for “Hungry? Eat Your Import!”

Maybe if she and millions of other American’s hadn’t exported their money to Japan on Honda’s, she would still have a job.

[vampyregirl]

Honda says it will be a decade before the Clarity enters mass production and could be longer before hydrogen fuel is readily available for drivers in all locations.

[3aidlillahi]

*Insert sarcastic remark noting that nearly everyone here knew that Hydrogen was going to be a flop and nothing but a PR stunt to keep the masses quiet*

[vampyregirl]

Let us wait another decade and see. I'm sure back in the day people said the ICE would be a flop and would never replace steam. I read that the first auto races were so slow and boring spectators yelled out Get a horse!!
So we never know what the future holds do we.

[Cashmere]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vampyregirl', 'L')et us wait another decade and see. I'm sure back in the day people said the ICE would be a flop and would never replace steam. I read that the first auto races were so slow and boring spectators yelled out Get a horse!!
So we never know what the future holds do we.

[shortonsense]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('3aidlillahi', '*')Insert sarcastic remark noting that nearly everyone here knew that Hydrogen was going to be a flop and nothing but a PR stunt to keep the masses quiet*

[3aidlillahi]

You have a great name, short on sense. Fits you well. Continue to believe in as much hype as you want.

Honda's auto sales were down 30% last month over a year ago. Even the smart auto companies like Honda and Toyota are not immune to economic downturn and a financial collapse. Without hundreds of millions, if not billions, of dollars that are needed to fund this research, these workers, these plants, these prototypes, then nothing of amazing technological achievement will be made. They won't, even if they could, finance a car that doesn't have fueling pumps nor a proven customer base.

We live in a resource-limited world. We've all known that. Now we're coming to terms with a finance-limited world. Alternative modes of transportation will have the hardest time finding the finances when even traditional, highly profitable modes of transport are having a very difficult time.

[TheDude]

Welcome to the site, shortonsense! We're very charitable and open minded! Enjoy your stay!

You might want to watch Powers of 10 and consider just how small a hydrogen atom is.

This is cool as well: Hydrogen Atom Scale Model

Text is next to an image of Neptune, with the label "Proton" on it.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he page is scaled so that the smallest thing on it, the electron, is one pixel. That makes the proton, this big ball right next to us, a thousand pixels across, and the distance between them is... yep, fifty million pixels (not a hundred million, because we're only showing the radius of the atom. ie: from the middle to the edge). If your monitor displays 72 pixels to the inch, then that works out to eleven miles - making this possibly the biggest page you've ever seen (I personally have seen one that was set up to be even bigger, though its exact size did not seem to represent anything specific).

[shortonsense]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('3aidlillahi', 'Y')ou have a great name, short on sense. Fits you well. Continue to believe in as much hype as you want.

[Cashmere]

SOS - if you think hydrogen will ever be used as a fuel in a fleet of vehicles, then you simply don't understand the technology involved.

It's really as simple as that, and all of your references to "trends" and "buggy whips" don't change the simple truth of it.

[shortonsense]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cashmere', 'S')OS - if you think hydrogen will ever be used as a fuel in a fleet of vehicles, then you simply don't understand the technology involved.

[3aidlillahi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')People not buying a car because they are waiting for the financial world to settle is different than people not being able to get a loan.

[shortonsense]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('3aidlillahi', '
')
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'n')ow that they are mass produced and being driven around California the best we have left is....

[3aidlillahi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'N')ot mine.

[shortonsense]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('3aidlillahi', '
')
For the full case against the Clarity, check out Joe Romm’s lengthy take-down. Short version: the car costs over $100,000 and is projected to remain ludicrously expensive for the foreseeable future; electric cars are likely to be more energy-efficient in the long run for fundamental reasons; and good luck finding a hydrogen fueling station within 700 miles of your house.

[Cashmere]

SOS - like I said - if you're arguing that fuel cells cars will ever be made in any volume, you don't understand the technological limitations.


I am intimately familiar with fuel cells/electrolyzers. I can diagram for you how the hydrogen is transported across the membrane and how the electron runs around the circuit.

Look man, the main issues are:

Fuel cell cost - platinum catalyst is never going to come down in price.

Hydrogen infrastructure - never going to build up a multi trillion dollar infrastructure.

Hydrogen supply - never going to be worth burning the primary energy source to make hydrogen, and never going to be sufficient "alternatives" to make eletrolyzers worth it.

Bottom line, running cars directly on coal would be more technologically feasible.

It's a dead end. Don't let your scientific ignorance serve as the sole support for your cornucopian pipe dreams.

[3aidlillahi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'G')o do some math and tell me, how many more years before that price hits the median price paid for a car in America?

[shortonsense]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('3aidlillahi', '
')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'L')ots of those people keep saying it. I googled up like 3 or 4 other references, I found another 3 or 4 which said "almost mass produced". Seems like this point of dispute isn't just limited to you and I.

[vampyregirl]

When I say mass produced I mean on a market flooding scale like the Civic or Accord.
I already posted on the hydrogen infrastructure project in China and another poster commented on the planned project in the EU. Make of it what you will.
Do I think the ICE will be totally phased out? Not anytime soon no but alternative vehicles such as electrics, hybrids, fuel cell, NVs etc can certainly provide a suppliment.