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THE TARP Thread (merged)

Discussions about the economic and financial ramifications of PEAK OIL
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Re: TARP Passes Senate 74-25

Unread postby IslandCrow » Thu 02 Oct 2008, 00:57:46

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Prince', 'I') read that some of the confidence was put in play to Joe American due to the FDIC increase from $100k to $250k.

Are people really this f-ing stupid? How many average Americans have $100k, much less $250k in the bank? I'm going to guess damn near nobody. The increase only helps the corrupt bastards that started this mess.


While the average American will not have that much money in the account, the average American is likely to receive their pay from a firm that needs more than that in its account to meet their payroll. This rise is a huge benefit for small firms (say with 25 - 100 people on their payroll). As the economy needs to relocalise this will be a great advantage for the smaller/local companies over the large ones.

At least this part of the bill should be cheered by us here at PO as a good step to help in the rebuilding of a more sustainable society.
We should teach our children the 4-Rs: Reduce, Reuse, Recycle and Rejoice.
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Re: TARP Passes Senate 74-25

Unread postby Duende » Thu 02 Oct 2008, 01:01:52

IslandCrow wrote:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')hile the average American will not have that much money in the account, the average American is likely to receive their pay from a firm that needs more than that in its account to meet their payroll.


Well shoot, after that $700,000,000,000 hits the street, $250,000 won't buy a freaking candy bar. So, maybe it is better that they raised the FDIC amount. :)
"Where is the man who has so much as to be out of danger?" -Thomas Huxley
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Re: TARP Passes Senate 74-25

Unread postby Micki » Thu 02 Oct 2008, 01:19:43

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Duende', 'I')slandCrow wrote:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')hile the average American will not have that much money in the account, the average American is likely to receive their pay from a firm that needs more than that in its account to meet their payroll.


Well shoot, after that $700,000,000,000 hits the street, $250,000 won't buy a freaking candy bar. So, maybe it is better that they raised the FDIC amount. :)

That is the conservative amount before it is leveraged.
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Re: TARP Passes Senate 74-25

Unread postby EnergyUnlimited » Thu 02 Oct 2008, 01:56:32

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Roccland', 'S')o what's it gonna be boyz?

"The course of action I'd suggest is a course of action I can't suggest."

Why do we allow ourselves to be ruled by this collection of walking toilet bowl scum?

Because you (as a nation) was insisting for too long to live above your means.
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Re: TARP Passes Senate 74-25

Unread postby charliebrownout » Thu 02 Oct 2008, 11:39:03

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Roccland', 'S')o what's it gonna be boyz?

"The course of action I'd suggest is a course of action I can't suggest."

Why do we allow ourselves to be ruled by this collection of walking toilet bowl scum?


I've wondered that from the moment I learned to read.

I remember watching Bush Sr. and Danny Boy and before that Reagan and thinking....What is this? Some kind of a joke?

You know, actually, I think it is a joke, but in a darkly comedic way.
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Re: TARP Passes Senate 74-25

Unread postby charliebrownout » Thu 02 Oct 2008, 11:40:39

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergyUnlimited', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Roccland', 'S')o what's it gonna be boyz?

"The course of action I'd suggest is a course of action I can't suggest."

Why do we allow ourselves to be ruled by this collection of walking toilet bowl scum?

Because you (as a nation) was insisting for too long to live above your means.


And the rest of the world are angels and saints, I'm guessing....?
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so if they got the 700 billion, why aren't the markets...?

Unread postby charliebrownout » Thu 02 Oct 2008, 12:05:21

Looking at market watch, things look pretty much the same as they were. Weren't they trying to pass this to "fix" things?

When does this "healing" begin?

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Re: so if they got the 700 billion, why aren't the markets..

Unread postby Eppo » Thu 02 Oct 2008, 12:11:46

Well, seeing as how they house voted it down once before when we were told it would pass. I think they're a little tentative to take anyone's word for it, even with the senate vote.
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Re: so if they got the 700 billion, why aren't the markets..

Unread postby dunewalker » Thu 02 Oct 2008, 12:15:38

The House AND Senate have to BOTH pass an identical bill, which then has to be signed by the president. Then they can spend the money.
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Re: so if they got the 700 billion, why aren't the markets..

Unread postby smallpoxgirl » Thu 02 Oct 2008, 12:16:55

This bailout is trying to repair the Titanic with duct tape.
"We were standing on the edges
Of a thousand burning bridges
Sifting through the ashes every day
What we thought would never end
Now is nothing more than a memory
The way things were before
I lost my way" - OCMS
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Re: so if they got the 700 billion, why aren't the markets..

Unread postby charliebrownout » Thu 02 Oct 2008, 12:21:45

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dunewalker', 'T')he House AND Senate have to BOTH pass an identical bill, which then has to be signed by the president. Then they can spend the money.


True, but with the Senate saying "Yea" do you really think the House is going to come back against it. As for W....well, we all know where he stands....
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Re: TARP Passes Senate 74-25

Unread postby EnergyUnlimited » Thu 02 Oct 2008, 12:25:34

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('charliebrownout', '
')And the rest of the world are angels and saints, I'm guessing....?

Other nations will also get what they deserve.
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Re: so if they got the 700 billion, why aren't the markets..

Unread postby joeltrout » Thu 02 Oct 2008, 12:40:12

First, the bill hasn't passed the House.

Second, the bill won't save our economy.

Third, the bill is suppose to stop the credits markets from freezing.

Fourth, the economy will continue to slow.

Fifth, we have no idea when the slowdown will stop.

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Re: so if they got the 700 billion, why aren't the markets..

Unread postby charliebrownout » Thu 02 Oct 2008, 12:50:04

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('joeltrout', 'F')irst, the bill hasn't passed the House.

Second, the bill won't save our economy.

Third, the bill is suppose to stop the credits markets from freezing.

Fourth, the economy will continue to slow.

Fifth, we have no idea when the slowdown will stop.

joeltrout


Sorry, I was being kind of tongue-in-cheek there. I just couldn't help being snarky after listening to CNBC (and other talking heads) ramble on about how the bailout has to pass to make everything peachy.

AND/OR seeing every rise or fall as something attributed to good or bad news related to the bailout.

By that logic, we should've seen things looking "happier" this morning because of the Senate Vote.

I keep hearing the talking heads selling this thing as though it will "save us all" from "certain destruction". So far, that line doesn't seem to fit reality.
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Re: so if they got the 700 billion, why aren't the markets..

Unread postby Eli » Thu 02 Oct 2008, 12:55:58

They are throwing 700 billion at a 4 trillion dollar problem.

The fact is there are also many smart people out there who recognize this bill is going to do squat to turn this thing around.

When the believers of in this bill realize this fact that is when sheer panic sets in.
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Re: so if they got the 700 billion, why aren't the markets..

Unread postby jbrovont » Thu 02 Oct 2008, 13:07:11

Asian markets actually fell on the news the Senate passed the bill. I was a little confused about that too.
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Re: so if they got the 700 billion, why aren't the markets..

Unread postby joeltrout » Thu 02 Oct 2008, 13:10:35

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jbrovont', 'A')sian markets actually fell on the news the Senate passed the bill. I was a little confused about that too.


Some very weak economic data has come out in the last 24 hours.

Jobless claims rise, plunging factory orders, and earnings season is coming up.

This might be the first quarter in which high oil prices really had effect on company earnings.

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Re: TARP Passes Senate 74-25

Unread postby IgnoranceIsBliss » Thu 02 Oct 2008, 13:45:27

AARP lobbied hard to get this thing passed.

Big surprise.

I contacted my rep. this morning. I'm sure he will vote yes anyway.

I will vote my usual "throw the bums out" ticket this November.

This is beyond repulsive, but did we honestly expect otherwise?
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Re: TARP Passes Senate 74-25

Unread postby nobodypanic » Thu 02 Oct 2008, 15:02:11

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AlexdeLarge', 'B')uffett was on the Charlie Rose Show tonight. Worth watching if you have the time.

Buffett says the bailout is most definitely needed to free up the logjam in the credit markets. If the bill does not pass, it will get real ugly.

Buffett said even if the bill passes, the recession continues. Best case senario is six months. Worst case....five years. Unemployment will go to 7 to 8 percent.

KD over at market ticker says Buffett is just covering his longs.

KD's credibility on this with me is hovering very near zero. i saw his mug on cnn(?) at work a few days ago and the guy actually said that the 'credit worthy' would have no problems getting credit if the bailout were killed. :roll:

i mean seriously.
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Re: so if they got the 700 billion, why aren't the markets..

Unread postby EnergyUnlimited » Thu 02 Oct 2008, 15:23:44

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Eli', 'T')hey are throwing 700 billion at a 4 trillion dollar problem.

The fact is there are also many smart people out there who recognize this bill is going to do squat to turn this thing around.

When the believers of in this bill realize this fact that is when sheer panic sets in.

You should also add 60-something trillions of derivatives immediately at risk.

And don't fool yourself.
Most of bailout money will end up stolen by bankers in one or another fraud.

Eg.
1. Prop up shares of failing institutions with bailout money.
2. Sell them to government (who will print money and/or increase taxes to buy...).
3. Convert funds into some sound assets (land, mineral rights etc), not necessarily in the US.
4. Live long and happily.

Enron executives were decent men of honor, if you compare them with current fraudsters in charge.
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