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THE TARP Thread (merged)

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Re: TARP Passes Senate 74-25

Unread postby Niagara » Thu 02 Oct 2008, 15:28:32

The DOW's down 300+ at the moment.

Is this more market manipulation? Arm-twisting by TPTB saying: "until the [s]bailout[/s] taxpayer investment opportunity is passed, your investments will continue to evaporate."
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Re: TARP Passes Senate 74-25

Unread postby joeltrout » Thu 02 Oct 2008, 15:36:06

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Niagara', 'T')he DOW's down 300+ at the moment.

Is this more market manipulation? Arm-twisting by TPTB saying: "until the [s]bailout[/s] taxpayer investment opportunity is passed, your investments will continue to evaporate."


You really don't have any idea what the bailout is actually for.

It is not to make everything rosey and pull our economy out of this slump.

It is to prevent our economy from free falling and crashing into pieces that will take decades to repair.

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Re: TARP Passes Senate 74-25

Unread postby AlexdeLarge » Thu 02 Oct 2008, 15:44:49

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Niagara', 'T')he DOW's down 300+ at the moment.

Is this more market manipulation? Arm-twisting by TPTB saying: "until the [s]bailout[/s] taxpayer investment opportunity is passed, your investments will continue to evaporate."


Nope.......its October. End of the 3rd Quarter. New economic reports out on auto sales, employment etc all showing a down trend. Its earning season again too. Companies will be reporting their profits (Ha!) and losses.

All this news will push the DOW lower even if the Bailout passes and becomes law.

Then comes Christmas and the retail sales will be bleak. DOW goes lower still. In 2009 the Alt. A mortgages will begin to reset in record numbers leading to more foreclosures and another 10 to 20% drop in home values.

DOW 8000 by spring, then hopefully hit a bottom.

The recession will be long and hard and will not end until Spring of 2010 at best. Just my Opinion.
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Re: TARP Passes Senate 74-25

Unread postby Niagara » Thu 02 Oct 2008, 15:46:59

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('joeltrout', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Niagara', 'T')he DOW's down 300+ at the moment.

Is this more market manipulation? Arm-twisting by TPTB saying: "until the [s]bailout[/s] taxpayer investment opportunity is passed, your investments will continue to evaporate."


You really don't have any idea what the bailout is actually for.

It is not to make everything rosey and pull our economy out of this slump.

It is to prevent our economy from free falling and crashing into pieces that will take decades to repair.

joeltrout


Huh? What does the purpose of the bill have to do with anything? I simply commented that those who want the bill pushed through are using market wrangling to accomplish their purpose.

Besides, I do understand the purpose of it. (Not that I care because I'm in Canada, our banks are safe and I am short to the gills US stocks.)

I notice you posting a lot lately in favor of this thing.

Joeltrout is to the bailout as Airlinepiliot is to 911. A shill.
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Re: TARP Passes Senate 74-25

Unread postby joeltrout » Thu 02 Oct 2008, 15:56:57

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Niagara', '
')Joeltrout is to the bailout .... A shill.


Actually quite the opposite.

If things collapsed then I would be able to pick up a lot of stuff on great discounts. Not only stocks but also real estate both residential and rural.

I have plans and am prepared either way.

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Re: TARP Passes Senate 74-25

Unread postby AlexdeLarge » Thu 02 Oct 2008, 15:57:36

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Niagara', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('joeltrout', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Niagara', 'T')he DOW's down 300+ at the moment.

Is this more market manipulation? Arm-twisting by TPTB saying: "until the [s]bailout[/s] taxpayer investment opportunity is passed, your investments will continue to evaporate."


You really don't have any idea what the bailout is actually for.

It is not to make everything rosey and pull our economy out of this slump.

It is to prevent our economy from free falling and crashing into pieces that will take decades to repair.

joeltrout


Huh? What does the purpose of the bill have to do with anything? I simply commented that those who want the bill pushed through are using market wrangling to accomplish their purpose.

Besides, I do understand the purpose of it. (Not that I care because I'm in Canada, our banks are safe and I am short to the gills US stocks.)

I notice you posting a lot lately in favor of this thing.

Joeltrout is to the bailout as Airlinepiliot is to 911. A shill.


Joel is in good company. From Buffet to Paulson to lots of economists.

I have heard no one say this bailout will stop the recession, but maybe it will stop a depression.

To do nothing.............is a huge gamble.
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Re: TARP Passes Senate 74-25

Unread postby pedalling_faster » Thu 02 Oct 2008, 16:12:46

one of the best rumors i've heard about the bail-out of the week, is that it's to make sure that the banks that normally buy T-bills at Fed auctions, have enough money to continue doing so through 2009.

the Dow falling to 8000/ 6000, we can handle.

has the US government ever tried to borrow money by selling their debt instruments, and not had a buyer ?
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Re: TARP Passes Senate 74-25

Unread postby nobodypanic » Thu 02 Oct 2008, 16:14:10

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Niagara', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('joeltrout', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Niagara', 'T')he DOW's down 300+ at the moment.

Is this more market manipulation? Arm-twisting by TPTB saying: "until the [s]bailout[/s] taxpayer investment opportunity is passed, your investments will continue to evaporate."


You really don't have any idea what the bailout is actually for.

It is not to make everything rosey and pull our economy out of this slump.

It is to prevent our economy from free falling and crashing into pieces that will take decades to repair.

joeltrout


Huh? What does the purpose of the bill have to do with anything? I simply commented that those who want the bill pushed through are using market wrangling to accomplish their purpose.

Besides, I do understand the purpose of it. (Not that I care because I'm in Canada, our banks are safe and I am short to the gills US stocks.)

I notice you posting a lot lately in favor of this thing.

Joeltrout is to the bailout as Airlinepiliot is to 911. A shill.

gee, i wonder why you'd be against this. obviously, you have our best intrests at heart. :lol:
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Re: TARP Passes Senate 74-25

Unread postby smallpoxgirl » Thu 02 Oct 2008, 16:14:52

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AlexdeLarge', 'T')o do nothing.............is a huge gamble.


Faulty logic. Doing stupid non productive things doesn't become any more useful just because the situation is desperate.
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Re: TARP Passes Senate 74-25

Unread postby AlexdeLarge » Thu 02 Oct 2008, 16:24:58

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AlexdeLarge', 'T')o do nothing.............is a huge gamble.


Faulty logic. Doing stupid non productive things doesn't become any more useful just because the situation is desperate.



Faulty logic? It is an opinion if the bailout is stupid and nonproductive. It is also an opinion that the bailout will work and prevent a depression.

The point is.....no one knows for sure. Buffett and Paulson are no fools. Neither are the economists who say it is doomed to failure.

So place your bets! :)
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Re: TARP Passes Senate 74-25

Unread postby shady28 » Thu 02 Oct 2008, 16:59:09

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pedalling_faster', 'o')ne of the best rumors i've heard about the bail-out of the week, is that it's to make sure that the banks that normally buy T-bills at Fed auctions, have enough money to continue doing so through 2009.

the Dow falling to 8000/ 6000, we can handle.

has the US government ever tried to borrow money by selling their debt instruments, and not had a buyer ?


This is a complete misconception about US Gov't ability to sell its debt (treasuries) that keeps getting repeated, and needs to be squashed.

READ this, and understand - there is MASSIVE demand for treasuries right now. The Fed doesn't have to beg anyone to buy them, they have to beg the Treasury to MAKE MORE :

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gXJk ... AD93I34UO0

Tuesday, while the 3-month Treasury bill yield dipped to 0.79 percent Wednesday from 0.88 percent late Tuesday. It remained at 0.79 percent after the Senate vote. The discount rate was 0.82 percent.

Low Treasury yields indicate strong demand, and that investors are willing to make meager returns on an investment as long as it is safe.

A month ago, the 3-month T-bill yield was at 1.68 percent.


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Re: TARP Passes Senate 74-25

Unread postby TommyJefferson » Thu 02 Oct 2008, 17:15:55

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AlexdeLarge', 'I') have heard no one say this bailout will stop the recession, but maybe it will stop a depression.


The Great Depression of the 1930's was caused by government interventions designed to prop up prices. Those interventions prevented the markets from correcting.

Same thing is happening today. Our current bailout will in fact make the situation worse.
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Re: TARP Passes Senate 74-25

Unread postby AlexdeLarge » Thu 02 Oct 2008, 17:23:35

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TommyJefferson', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AlexdeLarge', 'I') have heard no one say this bailout will stop the recession, but maybe it will stop a depression.


The Great Depression of the 1930's was caused by government interventions designed to prop up prices. Those interventions prevented the markets from correcting.

Same thing is happening today. Our current bailout will in fact make the situation worse.


That is a possibility.
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Re: TARP Passes Senate 74-25

Unread postby joeltrout » Thu 02 Oct 2008, 18:01:55

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TommyJefferson', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AlexdeLarge', 'I') have heard no one say this bailout will stop the recession, but maybe it will stop a depression.


The Great Depression of the 1930's was caused by government interventions designed to prop up prices. Those interventions prevented the markets from correcting.

Same thing is happening today. Our current bailout will in fact make the situation worse.


You need to remember Uncle Ben is one of the most if not the most knowledgeable person about the 29 crash. That doesn't mean he is perfect but he knows more about it than anyone else. He is the one I want as the Fed Chairman right now.

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Re: TARP Passes Senate 74-25

Unread postby AlexdeLarge » Thu 02 Oct 2008, 18:08:01

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('joeltrout', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TommyJefferson', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AlexdeLarge', 'I') have heard no one say this bailout will stop the recession, but maybe it will stop a depression.


The Great Depression of the 1930's was caused by government interventions designed to prop up prices. Those interventions prevented the markets from correcting.

Same thing is happening today. Our current bailout will in fact make the situation worse.


You need to remember Uncle Ben is one of the most if not the most knowledgeable person about the 29 crash. That doesn't mean he is perfect but he knows more about it than anyone else. He is the one I want as the Fed Chairman right now.

joeltrout



That is almost vebatim what Buffett said about Paulson on the Charlie Rose Show last night. That he was the right man for the job........ at this critical point in time.

However, Paulson helped get us in the mess. So I guess we have to hope Dr. Frankenstein can control his monster.
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Tucked deep inside TARP...no reserve requirement for banks.

Unread postby Roccland » Fri 03 Oct 2008, 22:46:02

Banks don't have to hold ANY reserves (was 10%)...this is free money for the gobbermint...say hello to $1000 bills...
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Reason: Merged with THE TARP Thread.
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Re: Tucked deep inside TARP...no reserve requirement for ban

Unread postby smallpoxgirl » Fri 03 Oct 2008, 22:55:46

We are so screwed. :(

Just for the sake of clarity, it doesn't drop the reserve rate to zero, but it gives the fed the freedom to do so. Still though, it's bad.
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Re: Tucked deep inside TARP...no reserve requirement for ban

Unread postby oiless » Fri 03 Oct 2008, 23:14:25

Canada has had 0% bank reserve rate for many years.
I keep waiting for it to blow up in our faces.
To listen to the media up here you would think the place was a bastion of prudent banking...
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Re: Tucked deep inside TARP...no reserve requirement for ban

Unread postby HEADER_RACK » Fri 03 Oct 2008, 23:58:06

Interesting to say the least.
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Re: Tucked deep inside TARP...no reserve requirement for ban

Unread postby Jotapay » Sat 04 Oct 2008, 00:27:52

I've seen that all week. It means there is unlimited money supply creation potential as well as cash shortages at your bank.

This is a strange time we live in. If you can borrow money for a wild idea to make a quick buck, you could potentially become rich while this lasts. Banks have unlimited cash to lend for it for the time being.
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