I have been reading all the doom and gloom on these forums which seem to be escalating every week. Now with the crappy credit bailouts it has even accelerated to a daily basis. People are asking why us, what has happened to the United States, the Consitution is scrapped, the military will soon be coming in, the coup has occurred, oh woe is us!!!!
Another part of these doom is among us discussions is how to prepare for the impending disaster. The "experts" are basically all saying prepare to live in the same standard of living as existed around 1850. I had to laugh at the person who said they had 65 pounds of frozen fish in the freezer as preparation for living off the land when all the facilities fail. My question to them is where are you going to get the electricity to keep those fish edible beyond the third day of thawing?
My main question is this. If you are telling us to prepare to live off the land, to return to a subsistance level, why do you not prepare for such an existance by moving to a locality where such is the norm? Say rural South Africa, or eastern India, or next door to Obama's brother? Why stay here and suffer the change when you could easily move to that environment and fit right in. You would be settled in when the damnation occurs and it would have little effect upon you. Since you all do agree there is some time before it does happen it would make sense to do it now while you still have time.
It is obvious from your predicitions that there will be turmoil and chaos when the crash occurs here. But I doubt if those already living at the reduced standard you are advocating will even notice such a blip in their lives. By your moving there you will not suffer the huge disruption in your lives which you are predicting for those of us who do not move. So why don't you just move and shut up?
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PeakOil is You
Why don't the doomers move?
Why don't the doomers move?
by ProudFossil » Sat 20 Sep 2008, 16:38:36
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ProudFossil - Peat
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Re: Why don't the doomers move?
by AgentR » Sat 20 Sep 2008, 16:46:36
Some have owned farmland in the US for generations; some don't want to learn a new language, some don't have the cash needed to make a solid start in a foreign country... etc.
Personally, I think the US, when all the dust settles, is going to be one of the least harmed regions of the world. Sure, there will be a hideous loss of luxury and excess; but a lot of core needs are easily met by the bounty of this land. Our military and police are largely uncorrupt; climate is well suited for agriculture, rail systems are everywhere, very large coastal zones, lots of water, a solid inland waterway in the mississippi and the great lakes canal system. We have a decent shot at things afterwards.
Personally, I think the US, when all the dust settles, is going to be one of the least harmed regions of the world. Sure, there will be a hideous loss of luxury and excess; but a lot of core needs are easily met by the bounty of this land. Our military and police are largely uncorrupt; climate is well suited for agriculture, rail systems are everywhere, very large coastal zones, lots of water, a solid inland waterway in the mississippi and the great lakes canal system. We have a decent shot at things afterwards.
Yes, we are. As we are.
And so shall we remain; Until the end.
And so shall we remain; Until the end.
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AgentR - Heavy Crude
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Re: Why don't the doomers move?
by ProudFossil » Sat 20 Sep 2008, 17:01:21
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR', 'S')ome have owned farmland in the US for generations; some don't want to learn a new language, some don't have the cash needed to make a solid start in a foreign country... etc. Personally, I think the US, when all the dust settles, is going to be one of the least harmed regions of the world. Sure, there will be a hideous loss of luxury and excess; but a lot of core needs are easily met by the bounty of this land. Our military and police are largely uncorrupt; climate is well suited for agriculture, rail systems are everywhere, very large coastal zones, lots of water, a solid inland waterway in the mississippi and the great lakes canal system. We have a decent shot at things afterwards.
Thank you for your reply but you sound more like a realist and not one of the doomers. Of course where you are describing is East of the Mississippi. I live in the desert Southwest and it will not be as easy here. But I do agree with most of your points.
You explanations in the first paragraph for the reasons not to move are the type of answers given by "yes...but" people. The doomers on this forum sound like anything like that. They are good at predicting what is going to happen. If these are their reasons, then they are actually blowhards. What good is land held by generations of your family if you have to defend it against the zombies? And many of our ancestors learned a new language when they came to this country. And if Obama's brother can live on a dollar a week (or is it a month), then $500 would make you a rich man there. I am still looking for the actual doomers to give me valid reasons why they would sit and suffer the collapse rather than be able to easily prepare for and survive it.
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ProudFossil - Peat
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Re: Why don't the doomers move?
by Snowrunner » Sat 20 Sep 2008, 17:03:53
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR', 'P')ersonally, I think the US, when all the dust settles, is going to be one of the least harmed regions of the world. Sure, there will be a hideous loss of luxury and excess; but a lot of core needs are easily met by the bounty of this land.
Are you sure? The way farming is happening in the Western World these days is not the ones that even our grandparents knew. It's not only about the ability to get the energy, but we have invested so much into monocultures that we have in places destroyed the ability to grow food. In time this will of course reverse, but in the short term it could pose tremendous problems.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'O')ur military and police are largely uncorrupt;
For now. If there is no more money to pay the cop or the military (which right now is mostly half way around the world) things can change easy. It really depends on how bad one thinks things are going to get, the reality is what we consider civilzation is a very thin veneer on some rather ugly looking things.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'c')limate is well suited for agriculture, rail systems are everywhere, very large coastal zones, lots of water, a solid inland waterway in the mississippi and the great lakes canal system. We have a decent shot at things afterwards.
A lot of these things rely on cheap energy though, the trains need Diesel to make it coast to coast etc. Yes, there is a lot of "natural resources' still left, but in most parts they aren't where most of the people are and a lot of knowledge has been lost.
As for the OP: If the Doomer scenarios really come true then there won't be a place that is "good", and if you are perceived an "outsider" by the core group then you're done for anyway. So moving to a place like Africa is probably (for the majority of people) not a solution.
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Snowrunner - Tar Sands
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They might not have a greencard, but you got some land and a little communal willingness to share, there are plenty of knowledgeable folks able to help you out.
I have issues with people who essentially say "Love it or leave it."
