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RIP: Lehmans Holdings Inc

Discussions about the economic and financial ramifications of PEAK OIL
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Re: Lehman is GOING DOWN

Unread postby Jotapay » Wed 10 Sep 2008, 17:58:42

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('hillguy57', 'S')ome sort of wealth redistribution is required but all out socialism or communism would never be accepted by the majority of the U.S. What is needed is a new hybrid Government with the cruel efficiency of free market combined with a humanitarian outlook of socialism. Something just left of center on the political spectrum.

Wealth would definitely be redistributed if they would let these huge finance and auto companies fail, throw the criminals in jail who ran them and colluded to defraud investors. Then new companies run by new blood would spring up. And there you have it.
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Re: Lehman is GOING DOWN

Unread postby ReverseEngineer » Wed 10 Sep 2008, 18:45:36

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jotapay', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('hillguy57', 'S')ome sort of wealth redistribution is required but all out socialism or communism would never be accepted by the majority of the U.S.. What is needed is a new hybrid Government with the cruel efficiency of free market combined with a humanitarian outlook of socialism. Something just left of center on the political spectrum.
Wealth would definitely be redistributed if they would let these huge finance and auto companies fail, throw the criminals in jail who ran them and colluded to defraud investors. Then new companies run by new blood would spring up. And there you have it.

The main problem with a redistribution of wealth is that there is no wealth really left to redistribute. After the CDS market starts tripping, $60T wipes out everything.

Are the private jets still worth something? Suppose so, but hard to figure how you will get them fueled. Are the $30M Mansions in the Hamptons still worth something? Suppose so, if there still is electricity flowing out there and you can still buy food somewhere maybe you could live in one of them.

Greedy folks basically sucked the life right out of the world and left nothing over. They sold people a bill of goods that private industry was better for them than government for health care and maintaining our environment, and sadly a lot of people here in this group still buy this idea, when its going down the toilet right in front of them. Mainly they are in denial, or they still hope to salvage the wealth they trade on the markets today. They are a bunch of sad clowns now, the real tragedy of course is that they took us all down with them.
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Re: Lehman is GOING DOWN

Unread postby dorlomin » Wed 10 Sep 2008, 18:51:21

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ReverseEngineer', 'T')he main problem with a redistribution of wealth is that there is no wealth really left to redistribute. After the CDS market starts tripping, $60T wipes out everything.
Someone recieves every CDS dollar paid out. It may wipe out alot of companies paying out, but alot of companies and people will benefit from it.

Its not like when a house loses value or a loan is failed to be repayed it is not the destruction of wealth but its transfer. (So far as I understand.) Of course, there will be chaos.
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Re: Fear is back on the menu boyz and girlz - LEHMAN BROTHER

Unread postby Roccland » Wed 10 Sep 2008, 21:34:51

down over $5 today - I think that is around 100%...

yippy ki o ki aye!!!
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Re: Fear is back on the menu boyz and girlz - LEHMAN BROTHER

Unread postby AlexdeLarge » Wed 10 Sep 2008, 22:31:21

A song to cheer you up! Imagine its 1929.....and next month is October! You are jumping a train for somewhere..............

Hobo Bill's Last Ride

Hobo Bill's Last Ride-August 1, 1930 (Waldo O'Neal)

Played by the FretKillr

If you play the Guitar or like Acoustic Music this guy is terrific. Check out some of his other videos!
Last edited by AlexdeLarge on Wed 10 Sep 2008, 23:22:32, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Lehman is GOING DOWN

Unread postby ReverseEngineer » Thu 11 Sep 2008, 00:46:43

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dorlomin', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ReverseEngineer', 'T')he main problem with a redistribution of wealth is that there is no wealth really left to redistribute. After the CDS market starts tripping, $60T wipes out everything.
Someone recieves every CDS dollar paid out. It may wipe out alot of companies paying out, but alot of companies and people will benefit from it.

Its not like when a house loses value or a loan is failed to be repayed it is not the destruction of wealth but its transfer. (So far as I understand.) Of course, there will be chaos.


It would only be a transfer if the end holder of the contract has the money to pay off on it. THAT is the problem. They DON'T. Its like an insurance company hit with too many claims at the same time, its a mass bankruptcy in this case though because the counterparty risk is all intertwined. Think Black Hole.

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Re: Lehman is GOING DOWN

Unread postby Rogozhin » Thu 11 Sep 2008, 02:18:16

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('cube', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'L')ibertarianism doesn't provide any support for the little guy either; it's all "paddle your own canoe."
Isn't that better than what we have now?I feel like I'm paddling the canoe but there's a freeloader in the back going water skiing.

I'd rather have libertarianism OR socialism than what we have now. What we have now is the worst of all possible worlds, except for the rich.



'From each according to his need to each according to his ability' cannot be transposed upon 'From each according to his want to each according to his ability'.
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Re: Lehman is GOING DOWN

Unread postby EnergyUnlimited » Thu 11 Sep 2008, 03:00:20

I am firmly with ReverseEngineer here.

There is no wealth to redistribute left. Most of that what we are calling "wealth" now will fall into disrepair and ultimate ruin within several decades.
Mansions, SUVs, private jets, road network, cities, you name it...

On the top of it our economy is run on Monopoly money. :-D

I understand well why many here may *wish* for that system to fail.
Utopia cannot go on for too long after all. :)
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Re: Lehman is GOING DOWN

Unread postby yeahbut » Thu 11 Sep 2008, 06:23:07

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jotapay', 'S')he believes in an idyllic Shangri-La.


:lol: :lol: :lol:

I'm guessing you haven't read too many of Ludi's posts. Probably should tho, before you let everyone know what someone else believes, doncha think? Off you go then, and bring us back some of those Shangri-La quotes.
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Re: Lehman is GOING DOWN

Unread postby firestarter » Thu 11 Sep 2008, 08:38:55

Trading under $4 pre market. WaMu is also under $2.

We're on the verge of another potential crash. Wow.
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Re: Lehman is GOING DOWN

Unread postby Heineken » Thu 11 Sep 2008, 09:37:41

So? The government just steps in and bails it out. No crash.

Apparently there is no limit to the bailouts. Not as long as money can be created by keystrokes, or by borrowing.
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Re: Lehman is GOING DOWN

Unread postby cube » Thu 11 Sep 2008, 09:45:32

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yeahbut', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jotapay', 'S')he believes in an idyllic Shangri-La.


:lol: :lol: :lol:

I'm guessing you haven't read too many of Ludi's posts. Probably should tho, before you let everyone know what someone else believes, doncha think? Off you go then, and bring us back some of those Shangri-La quotes.
I disagree with Ludi about gardening.
However I think she's one of the most respectable people on this board.

I think the most common action people will take post PO to save money is cooking at home rather then going out to a restaurant.
The price differential between restaurant food and home cooked food is huge.
You can eat for $2.50 / meal at home with what it would cost $10 at a restaurant.
However the price difference between going to a grocery store and growing your own vegetable garden (water, fertilizer,labor) is literally zero.
This is why I never understood why so many people are pro-gardening on this board.
I'd rather get a job as a security guard working the graveyard shift patrolling copper pipes in a post PO world and then using my money to buy a sack of potatos at a grocery store then growing a garden.

The problem with agriculture is you're only one flood, drought, tornado, *insert natural disaster* away from bankruptcy.
No thanks. If I'm going to accept that type of risk, I might as well become a day-trader (easier work / better pay). :)
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Re: Lehman is GOING DOWN

Unread postby seahorse2 » Thu 11 Sep 2008, 10:41:37

Too many lehman going down threads. Maybe they can be consolidated?
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Re: Lehman is GOING DOWN

Unread postby firestarter » Thu 11 Sep 2008, 10:47:59

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('seahorse2', 'T')oo many lehman going down threads. Maybe they can be consolidated?


No way. Too late for that. But even if they do somehow become merged with a, GS for instance, it won't be Lehman anymore. Thus they are no more.
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Re: Lehman is GOING DOWN

Unread postby Wowzers » Thu 11 Sep 2008, 11:36:16

**Libertarianism doesn't provide any support for the little guy either; it's all "paddle your own canoe."

dont think RP was a candidate as a Lib, he was running as a grassroots Republican

irregardless, "paddling your own canoe" should probably be the mantra.

RP recognizes the middle and lower classes

the us is more communist than china in ways
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Re: Lehman is GOING DOWN

Unread postby JJ » Thu 11 Sep 2008, 12:14:20

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('cube', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yeahbut', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jotapay', 'S')he believes in an idyllic Shangri-La.


:lol: :lol: :lol:

I'm guessing you haven't read too many of Ludi's posts. Probably should tho, before you let everyone know what someone else believes, doncha think? Off you go then, and bring us back some of those Shangri-La quotes.
I disagree with Ludi about gardening.
However I think she's one of the most respectable people on this board.

I think the most common action people will take post PO to save money is cooking at home rather then going out to a restaurant.
The price differential between restaurant food and home cooked food is huge.
You can eat for $2.50 / meal at home with what it would cost $10 at a restaurant.
However the price difference between going to a grocery store and growing your own vegetable garden (water, fertilizer,labor) is literally zero.
This is why I never understood why so many people are pro-gardening on this board.
I'd rather get a job as a security guard working the graveyard shift patrolling copper pipes in a post PO world and then using my money to buy a sack of potatos at a grocery store then growing a garden.

The problem with agriculture is you're only one flood, drought, tornado, *insert natural disaster* away from bankruptcy.
No thanks. If I'm going to accept that type of risk, I might as well become a day-trader (easier work / better pay). :)


OK until JIT fails.
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Re: Fear is back on the menu boyz and girlz - LEHMAN BROTHER

Unread postby AlCzervik » Thu 11 Sep 2008, 13:05:51

Lehman In Talks With Buyers As Shares Drop.
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Re: Fear is back on the menu boyz and girlz - LEHMAN BROTHER

Unread postby Ferretlover » Thu 11 Sep 2008, 13:27:15

From Reuters:
Lehman survival questioned; scramble to sell assets Garage Sale in progress

Goldman Sachs is not buying Lehman We don't want their cooties
"Open the gates of hell!" ~Morgan Freeman's character in the movie, Olympus Has Fallen.
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Lehman Hires Jeb Bush

Unread postby mattduke » Thu 11 Sep 2008, 16:02:36

Lehman hires Jetb president's brother, and banking expert: link Google Jeb and Savings And Loan.
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Re: Lehman Hires Jeb Bush

Unread postby AlexdeLarge » Thu 11 Sep 2008, 16:31:02

Who says you can't buy influence! LOL
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