[0mar]

ANWR is already documented in ASPO's model. For that matter, ASPO's model takes into account all future discoveries.

[holmes]

Mig, the US is not a sustainable economy with population numbers reflecting this. it is becoming obvious that oil has become a dysfunction and a codependent relationship. however we must only use it wisely from now on. In fact cut off must occur. The masses will revolt and slaughter will occur. But if some areas are well defended, small groups of intelligent humans might evolve in sustainable thermal mass structures. Then it will really be survive the ice age. Which will come rather quickly because carbon sinks are filled.
Very unhealthy and will only get worse as the MO gets more complicated and insane. some times the affliction leads to death by suicide or murder. The ole addicted codependent relationship.
I am a neo con.

[Petro]

So much good thinking here. I would only add this abstract from listening to CSPAN on Monday, March 21, 2005.
(disclaimer: actual quotes are not represented herein) A woman called in (to CSPAN), she stated: The wildlife is [over]thiving because of the Alaska Pipeline.
A man called in and stated, after the talking head had informed the listening audience that ANWAR would provide insignificant amounts of oil compared to current imports: Drilling ANWAR will make us indepentant of the middle-east.
it goes on and on and is very sad that Americans, even when presented with the facts schill for those that program them, rather than admit that there are problems with the paradigm...I watched smart men and women say we should drill even after presented with the facts about its boon and in light of the fact that most of it [anwar oil], will be exported. I felt very sad, and worried...

[pea-jay]

I cannot believe drilling in the currently protected areas is going to amount to much in the grand scheme of things in terms of US oil supply. But lets take a hypothetical solution where we not only opened ANWR but EVERY inch of coastline and national park to drillers and did it tomorrow. Would that bring new supplies online? Quite possibly. In any significant quantities? Probably 1 to 2 MBD, maybe more (I am not familiar with East and West coast reserves). Would that help us? No. How could it? Just because the area is open, doesnt mean the oil flows tomorrow or even next year. It takes a certain amount of lead time to do this and the fastest I have heard of oil field projects coming online is 7 years after discovery/field permission granting. Heck ANWR won't even come online until 2012-2014.

Given the US's advanced state of production declines, how in the world will this new supply engineer a soft landing when it many not even offset the existing field declines in other parts of the country? Even in the most optomistic scenario, it would mildly raise US production rates for a few years. Thats a few million barrels in an economy that already consumes more than twenty million now.
More supply does not ensure a softer landing. Only cooperative decisionmaking and a goal to live within the means of the local environment can do that.

[holmes]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Hawkcreek', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')o they're going to sack one of the few remaining pristine wilderness areas in NA to get the oil. That's a pity

[holmes]

I do have family up in alaska. My cousin lives way up in the wilderness. She reports all the changes. In fact she lives so remote that she crashed her snowmobile in the winter when going to town(which is 50 mile or so away) and they didnt find her for 2 days. she almost died broken neck, etc.. But might as well drill ands put the oil to worthles short term use..

[Petro]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he carbon sequestered in the permafrost in the arctic regions is massive. Now that it is thawing and decomposing as are the forests dying and decomposing massive loads of carbon are being relesed into the atmosphere

[holmes]

Petro we are already looking at a short ice age already. It will come fast. probably not my lifetime but shortly after. say as early as early 2100's. Thats inevitable. Thats why thermal mass structures with indoor green house capabilities is imperitive for human speciation.
The carbon was stored for a fucking reason. But our greed and ass fucking chase for profit and no other objective will snuff all out. all I have to say is if you got young kids. Throw em on the heap of methane fertilizer. actually babies and young children will be the veal of the future. Who wants to eat old tuff old people. LOL. But true.

[holmes]

I already said use it for utilitarian purposes. Population levels will not allow a transition off oil. The miles of sprawl associated with these drills. It better be worth it.
The miles of sprawl that is up there including the miles of toxic/nuclear waste dumps. The sprawl and roads that are already being built are creating more co2. They are beginning to pave unpolid areas for recreation and developement. No Much CO2 comes from the highways, construction, sprawl,diesal, cows, chickens, pigs, over fertilized crops,homes, Cities, etcc. Producing rubber tires for my bike is miniscule.
I have never said anything against the oil companies I have said things about greed and the continuance of unsustainable practices. Misuse and mismanagement of natural recources.
We all use energy. However I am 100% against shipping out our local manuafacturing base which increases the amountof oil needed. and I also stand by my observation and reality that the continuing over industrialization of wilderness areas is a liability. and the powder river valley is proof that they are not using these utopian techniques. So the proof is in the thousands of miles of freshwater streams we are losing nation wide from mining and mostly over popualtion. all through the west east west virginia.
If drilling goes down it better be worth it ten fold.

[DriveElectric]

Interesting article in how each side manipulates the numbers on ANWR for their own political goals.

WallStreetJournal

Both Sides Massage the Data In the Debate Over ANWR 24 Mar 2005

[maverickdoc]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')b]Geo-Greening by Example
By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN 27 Mar 2005
How will future historians explain it? How will they possibly explain why President George W. Bush decided to ignore the energy crisis staring us in the face and chose instead to spend all his electoral capital on a futile effort to undo the New Deal, by partially privatizing Social Security? We are, quite simply, witnessing one of the greatest examples of misplaced priorities in the history of the U.S. presidency.

[cube]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('maverickdoc', '$')4 for regular can you imagine what that would do to the economy?
We should invite him to join PO.com

[Chicagoan]

In a major political victory for President Bush, the Senate recently voted to open the Alaskan Arctic Wildlife Refuge to oil drilling. What do you think?

http://www.theonion.com/wdyt/index.php?issue=4112

[0mar]

"If I may be allowed to pursue the idea of 'addiction to oil,' I think the nation just reached the point where we sold our wedding ring for one night's fix."

I love that quote.

[jimmyz]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('0mar', '"')If I may be allowed to pursue the idea of 'addiction to oil,' I think the nation just reached the point where we sold our wedding ring for one night's fix."

I love that quote.

[Chuckmak]

the onion is a great newspaper! i love reading their articles.

[WebHubbleTelescope]

California congressman Dan Lundgren, while trying to explain the need for ANWR oil drilling, said this in a mass mailing to his constituents:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '�')��I feel quite strongly that as long as we have our military in the Middle East fighting so that we can continue to purchase oil from that region, we have an obligation to find alternatives to foreign oil. It is difficult to justify the death of even one soldier when we are not doing everything in our power to explore options for oil within our country.”

[UIUCstudent01]

Oh no! A congressman tells the truth! BURN HIM! BURN HIM!

[Colorado-Valley]

I thought we were bringing them democracy.

[Riverside]

Whoops, he let it slip that we are there for oil!

And the only solution is to look for more oil here? Not alternatives? Not conservation? There goes the "slow decline" theory.

Carla