[Grimnir]

This was inevitable. In the coming years, environmental concerns will be dismissed as luxuries as we scramble to get whatever coal and oil is left.

[PhilBiker]

There's a lot of oil off the California coast, and lots of gas off New England.

[holmes]

LoL. You should hear the free republic types. They think its this huge win and like there will be this huge amount of oil on the market. LOL. Theyll start blaming others now when they dont see a fucking ounce of it. Its just making profits for the oil industry. Thats it. So who believes gloabal colapse will be light?
They lost big time, but low IQs only think in the absolute present. If it feels good, do it.
Yeah ok. I have to laugh though becuase their little ignorant children are done. Liebigs law? Hey at least its done and the Truth will be out in a couple years.
I say the industrialization of alaska will add several moredegrees to the upward spiral of global temps. The ecosystem up there is changing and thawing and releasing massive loads of carbon into the atmosphere.
Plus they have to redoe their entire infrastructure soon becuase the perma frost is thawing and colpasing everyhting. Hey Im at the point where i just say fuck it. Nothing you can do anymore. let er role. In 10 years they will be crazed and in withdrawals. probably less when their prized economy crashes permanently whenit runs into absolute ecologicla limits. we can still do a good job hiding it. That wont go away for several years.

[Olaf]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PhilBiker', 'T')here's a lot of oil off the California coast, and lots of gas off New England.

[Backpacker]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Olaf', 'T')he ANWR amendment was defeated 51 to 49. Get those pavers and drills ready.It is a sad day.

[Dezakin]

Lets assume that drilling ANWR 'destroys' the arctic ecosystem.

Why should we care? How are we dependant on it? I admit I'm trying to raise some hackles, but I'm honestly curious what the theory is for the impact on humanity from ANWR's ecosystems. Is this just about preventing a pretty place far out of the way from being rendered less pretty, or is there some greater human impact concern (outside of local innuit eating carribu.)

[clv101]

This site is good for a laugh: link
When talking about how much oil is there they talk about it on a state by state level... How long would your state run on ANWR oil?. They have a list of each state and how long it will run: link
Looks good, Colorado 120 years, Maine 249 years, South Dakota 499 years oh and California 16, Florida 29 and Texas 9! What they don't do is add it all together and say how long the whole USA will run on ANWA oil.
Do they really think Americans are so dumb to not see that, or so small minded not to think outside their own state?

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Dezakin', 'L')ets assume that drilling ANWR 'destroys' the arctic ecosystem.

Why should we care? How are we dependant on it? I admit I'm trying to raise some hackles, but I'm honestly curious what the theory is for the impact on humanity from ANWR's ecosystems. Is this just about preventing a pretty place far out of the way from being rendered less pretty, or is there some greater human impact concern (outside of local innuit eating carribu.)

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')is there some greater human impact concern (outside of local innuit eating carribu.)

[EnemyCombatant]

I am so sorry. I swear I saw it on CSpan. But my heart fooled my eyes. I am very sad.
Alaska Wildlife Refuge Open for Drilling: link
Please forgive me!

[DomusAlbion]

I, for one and I'm sure I'm a minority here, am glad that this bill passed.
When this oil finally comes on line in 10 years this nation will be at a point where we will really need it. By then I think most people will have caught on to the problems we face with declining oil production and hopefully the government will nationalize this (and all remaining oil fields) precious resource for the good of the nation as a whole.
This and other domestic sources may save us and make the transition to a lower energy way of life possible.

[Olaf]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnemyCombatant', 'I') am so sorry. I swear I saw it on CSpan. But my heart fooled my eyes. I am very sad.
Alaska Wildlife Refuge Open for Drilling: link
Please forgive me!

[eric_b]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('DomusAlbion', 'I'), for one and I'm sure I'm a minority here, am glad that this bill passed. When this oil finally comes on line in 10 years this nation will be at a point where we will really need it. By then I think most people will have caught on to the problems we face with declining oil production and hopefully the government will nationalize this (and all remaining oil fields) precious resource for the good of the nation as a whole. This and other domestic sources may save us and make the transition to a lower energy way of life possible.

[Leanan]

Just some thoughts on today's vote to drill in ANWR. It is not a done deal; the budget bill it's attached to has significant opposition, not only from environmentalists opposed to drilling in ANWR, but from fiscal conservatives, who are alarmed at the red ink.

But the vote, and the whole issue, were rather revealing...
First off, there's not much oil there. Even if the wildest wet dreams of the oil companies proved true, there's maybe eight years worth of oil there...spread out over decades of pumping, and assuming demand does not increase. Indeed, several oil companies have given up, deciding that the paltry amount of oil up there isn't worth the hassle.
Yet the way the senators were talking today, you'd think there were a dozen Saudi Arabias up there. One senator from Maryland declared that there was enough oil there to keep Maryland supplied for 100 years. Yeah, right. Even if that were true, Maryland isn't going to get dibsies on it all. It's probably not even going to get 1/50 of it, since there are bigger states in the union. But even if they did...100/50 equals 2 years of oil for each state. Whoop-de-doo. And that's an optimistic estimate.

Then there's the odd fact that Hawaii's two senators, Akaka and Inouye, voted for drilling. Why would that be? Hawaii is one of the most liberal states in the union. They are very strongly pro-environment, not only because of their general leftiness, but because tourism is their main industry.
But wait...tourism. That's the key. As the airline industry goes, so goes Hawaii. We are all dependent on oil. (There was a story on CNN this morning, about how Mattel is suffering due to high oil prices. It takes a lot of oil to make the plastic resin that's molded into Barbie dolls.) But few industries are as visibly affected by fuel prices as the airline industry. Aside from labor, fuel is their biggest cost. And vacations to Hawaii are a luxury. If the fares are high, people don't go. They go someplace closer, like Mexico or Aruba, or they drive to Niagara Falls or something instead.

High fuel prices have been brutal on Hawaii. Each county in the state is a separate island, and when I was growing up there, the local airlines - Aloha and Hawaiian - were treated almost like the city bus. They sold "commuter booklets" of coupons that let you fly between islands for about $30. People would fly in to Honolulu from the outer islands to shop on the weekends, or to attend a UH football game, or a rock concert. Now, both airlines are bleeding red ink, to the point that they tried to merge. (I believe it was blocked by anti-trust concerns.) A round trip tickets costs $200 or more. And they never run on time.

Peak oil is going to be brutal on Hawaii. The interisland airlines are being hit hard now, but the others will follow. Tourist destinations like Hawaii are the canaries in the coal mine, because leisure travel will be one of the first things people give up.
Inouye and Akaka, even though they are liberal Democrats, did not vote with their party - did not even consider it. Even though ANWR cannot possibly be a long-term solution. If ANWR gets them one or two more years of cheap airfares, it's worth it to them.
This attitude is why I'm so pessimistic about the post-peak world. People will be in denial until they're fighting over the last few candle stubs.

[savethehumans]

The permafrost melts...the tundra gives way...the pipeline collapses...the methane pours into the atmosphere...runaway global warming.
Gotta hand it to the U.S. guvment--we're sure gonna have an exciting future--what there is of it....

[pea-jay]

2012 for the earliest produceable oil...
By 2012 we will be 5-7 years past peak oil (depending on how unconventional oil production fares) and begining the period of advancing declines with the last of the new megaprojects having gone online in 2009. I cannot begin to speculate what the economy will be like at that time, but if we are in the midst of an all out chaotic collapse by that point I don't think any company will be able to produce and market that stuff. If we haven't collapsed by that point, ANWR isn't going to make alot of difference.

[savethehumans]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'D')o they really think Americans are so dumb to not see that, or so small minded not to think outside their own state?

[JohnDenver]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Dezakin', 'W')hy should we care? How are we dependant on it? I admit I'm trying to raise some hackles, but I'm honestly curious what the theory is for the impact on humanity from ANWR's ecosystems. Is this just about preventing a pretty place far out of the way from being rendered less pretty, or is there some greater human impact concern (outside of local innuit eating carribu.)

[Pops]

I think drilling now is good, we should open all the coastal and other off limits areas asap.
Why? Because we WILL drill all those areas eventually and today there is still some small amount of concern for the environment and regulation remaining.
In 20 years America will not be a “dividedâ€

[JohnDenver]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')is there some greater human impact concern (outside of local innuit eating carribu.)