[Plarin]

A lot of the members of this forum view society as a foolish bunch of lemmings that deserve to die, it seems. Maybe that's just because most everyone who thinks this way is vocal about it, but... I'm curious what makes them tick like that.

Do they think they're superior for having special knowledge? Some people are spouting that "the signs are there for all to see", but I doubt most people here would have learned about it without being directly introduced to peak oil.

Or maybe they're psychologically preparing for the fact that they'll have to leave people in the streets to starve to stay alive themselves.

Oddly, I'm not feeling too uncomfortable about not sharing peak oil with anyone. It's weird, considering I could be saving people's lives... Maybe I'm a first-stager of this syndrome.

Opinions?

[mrobert]

All measures must be taken to preserve people's birthright to cheap gas and free money.
Once TSHTF I will be out, distributing free gas and food for those needing it.
I am building a huge stockpile for this. This should be something that all PO.com members should be doing.

[Cashmere]

I would like to add that I, myself, will contribute to this effort. I plan to have special "oversize" stations, where I hand out free 50 gallon filll-ups and 500 calorie donuts.

My motto will be, "If your ass isn't bigger than the seat in your SUV, don't bother stopping, peanut."

I will give away much gas and much donut.

[MadScientist]

Many of us have known about the consequences of our dependance on cheap energy for 4+ years.

In that time we have been scoffed at, ignored, lectured at about how technology_01 will most certainly save us, etc etc

I wouldn't say they deserve to die, but they certainly are lemmings.

If you want to get a taste for what I'm saying, try this simple experiment. Pick one person a day for 30 days. Start with the ones you feel are most likely to believe you based on your relationship with them and/or their general awareness of current events (outside of sports). Share with them your best arguments for the dangers of energy depletion.


My personal experience began with illusions of saving the world. I spent endless hours researchin and preparing speeches. I talked and talked.
Today, I occasionally start a current events conversation with someone and RARELY get past 1st base without them changing the topic or shutting me down with some rancid tidbit of conventional wisdom.

I understand where you're coming from though. It is difficult to reconcile the need for billions of people to die with an innate desire to save everyone. Best I can offer is... think and live locally.

[dinopello]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mrobert', 'A')ll measures must be taken to preserve people's birthright to cheap gas and free money.
Once TSHTF I will be out, distributing free gas and food for those needing it.
I am building a huge stockpile for this. This should be something that all PO.com members should be doing.

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mrobert', 'A')ll measures must be taken to preserve people's birthright to cheap gas and free money.
Once TSHTF I will be out, distributing free gas and food for those needing it.
I am building a huge stockpile for this. This should be something that all PO.com members should be doing.

[mrobert]

@mos6507: Do you honestly think that we can debate and find a solution on how to share peakoil to people, so that they understand it and act upon it?

PeakOil is a VERY simple thing to understand.

What we don't understand is that the problem is not that we suck at explaining it to people. There are people who DON'T want to accept that this will happen.

My parents didn't even knew what PeakOil was a few years back (neither did I), when they decided to leave the city for a nearby small village and buy a house there. Their entire decision was based on prices going up in the future(energy, food, etc), and securing their future.

Do you HONESTLY believe that a college graduate with internet access doesn't understand what PeakOil is, because we suck at explaining it?

It's pointless anyway.

PeakOil humour will be the only entertainment we will get in the future

[Plarin]

IMO, The fact that people will trust society over one person with a crackpot theory doesn't make them a lemming. You might think your arguments seem well-thought out, but the person you're convincing probably won't see much reason to trust the source.

I do agree though that denial plays a large part of it, but that's really hard-wired. (Although I guess that doesn't seem like much of an excuse.)

Personally, I think most members here wouldn't have believed themselves 5+ year sago.

[Cochise]

For what is worthed, i'll give you my opinion.

Our planet is a finite system, with a finite amount of non-renewable resources.
As such, it can only sustain a finite number of people. This number depends essentially on the amount of ANY type of renewable resources we can produce.
Our standard of living and our level of population is NOT sustainable if the production of oil (not to be confused with amount or reserves of oil) falls.
I believe that so far, the concepts exposed are not out of grasp.

It should be also clear that that the more oil we leave for our children , the easier we make it for them. Another easy to understand concept.

Now, try to explain these concepts to few people.
99.99% of them will reject them. Why? Because trying to do something to mitigate the problem means 2 simple thing:

1. Reduce our consumption of energy in any form (buy small cars, not SUV, reduce consumption of meat, give up these trips at the mall... in one sentence, give up our consumerism)

2. reduce the number of children any couple can have.

Almost nobody wants to face these changes. They stick their head under the sand, and hope that something will save us. They will rather exploit and destroy the all damn environment (and compromise the surviving of their children) than sacrifice they comfy lifestyle.
Do you think this type of approach is worthy of an adult?

so i think is not really a matter if i hope they will die or not... given their inability to face this issue they will die anyway.... and i am afraid they will take us with them.

[Plarin]

True, but, who wants to sacrifice their life to extend the life of modern civilization by a few seconds?

That and the fact that most people mistakenly believe science will save us, which you can hardly blame them for.

Would you be up for becoming Amish if it weren't for Peak Oil coming down on you?

[MadScientist]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plarin', 'I')MO, The fact that people will trust society over one person with a crackpot theory doesn't make them a lemming. You might think your arguments seem well-thought out, but the person you're convincing probably won't see much reason to trust the source.

I do agree though that denial plays a large part of it, but that's really hard-wired. (Although I guess that doesn't seem like much of an excuse.)

Personally, I think most members here wouldn't have believed themselves 5+ years ago.

[Ludi]

Thing is, even if you know about peak oil, you may get pushed off the cliff by the rest of the lemmings. Or you may be a lame lemming who simply can't make it in the low energy future.

Does that mean one "deserves" to die?

I know a fair amount about peak oil, but I don't kid myself that will necessarily enable me to survive in the low energy future. In fact, I quite expect not to make it.

*shrug*

[Cashmere]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mrobert', 'A')ll measures must be taken to preserve people's birthright to cheap gas and free money.
Once TSHTF I will be out, distributing free gas and food for those needing it.
I am building a huge stockpile for this. This should be something that all PO.com members should be doing.

[Plarin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MadScientist', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plarin', 'I')MO, The fact that people will trust society over one person with a crackpot theory doesn't make them a lemming. You might think your arguments seem well-thought out, but the person you're convincing probably won't see much reason to trust the source.

I do agree though that denial plays a large part of it, but that's really hard-wired. (Although I guess that doesn't seem like much of an excuse.)

Personally, I think most members here wouldn't have believed themselves 5+ years ago.

[MadScientist]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plarin', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MadScientist', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plarin', 'I')MO, The fact that people will trust society over one person with a crackpot theory doesn't make them a lemming. You might think your arguments seem well-thought out, but the person you're convincing probably won't see much reason to trust the source.

I do agree though that denial plays a large part of it, but that's really hard-wired. (Although I guess that doesn't seem like much of an excuse.)

Personally, I think most members here wouldn't have believed themselves 5+ years ago.

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plarin', '
')I disagree. Although there is a lot of information on peak oil, you kind of actually have to be searching for peak oil to find it.

[Plarin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plarin', '
')I disagree. Although there is a lot of information on peak oil, you kind of actually have to be searching for peak oil to find it.

[MadScientist]

if you presented a decent argument I would use the massive information pools of google and youtube to find out if there was merit to your position. I wouldnt say that since this city has never been hit by a volcano it never will be and promptly forget about you. So I suppose what seperates me from the sheeple is the ability to consider uncomfortable possibilities and to educate myself about them instead of vegging out in front of the tube between work and sleep.

Matt Savinar's LATOC site was my first glimpse at peak oil also. My mom was the person who referred me to it. Her and my stepdad have been living a post collapse lifestyle for a long time because they believe our world has abandoned God. And FWIW she is an amazing cook considering she starts from scratch (grinds all grain)and cans pretty much everthing from venison hash to maple syrup. No substitute for experience. I also have a 10 yr old half brother who would put most adults in America to shame as far as skills and capabilities ranging from butchering/running a farm to hunting/marksmanship.
Parents dont underestimate your children

[mrobert]

Recently, our country's most important financial newspaper, included a copy of "Paul Roberts - The end of teh oil age" (Please correct me if the title is wrong) translated in Romanian.

The price of the newspaper with the book included was dirt cheap. They were virtually giving the book away for free. (It was around $1).

People ARE BEING warned.