[davep]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'C')ORNUCOPIAN PARADIGM: A view of past and future human progress that disregards the carrying capacity concept, pays no attention to the finiteness of the world or to differences between takeover and drawdown, and accepts uncritically the myth of limitlessness. (Catton)

[Toploader]

My views make even the most hardened doomers seem moderate.

So I tend not to bother posting them, there is not point in bringing people around to hopelessness when there is nothing they can do about it. The party’s not quite over yet after all.

And as the saying goes, those that believe it can't be done should not get in the way of those actually trying to do it.

[roccman]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Interfector', 'B')y that I mean, anyone who believes that the era of cheap oil is over, and that life will probably get steadily tougher for the majority of people, but doesn't think that we'll be resorting to cannibalism to survive within a decade, but that could be a potential scenario in the future if the right action isn't taken now.

[benzoil]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('roccman', '6') Billion or more dieing in under 20 years is a stark cold fact.

[roccman]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('benzoil', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('roccman', '6') Billion or more dieing in under 20 years is a stark cold fact.

[jtmorgan61]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('benzoil', 'T')here will be a long series of financial crises. The current one will be fairly mild, comparatively. The big one will come in a couple years. I haven't figured out when/how the urban/rural dynamic will play out yet though.

[benzoil]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('roccman', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('benzoil', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('roccman', '6') Billion or more dieing in under 20 years is a stark cold fact.

[roccman]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('benzoil', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('roccman', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('benzoil', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('roccman', '6') Billion or more dieing in under 20 years is a stark cold fact.

[Canuk]

More of a moderate myself I hope the doomsday prophets are wrong.

If a major resource war breaks (beyond the current Iraw debacle) out all bets are off but there is hope for a middle ground.

Any type of controlled (soft) landing would need serious reductions and perhaps even rationing similar to WWI and eventual abandonment of personal transport for the majority (cars). The current subsidies in much of our system need to be removed to make costs more transparent - a greater user pay system for infrastructure and energy would significantly reduce consumption instead of using the general tax pool to subsidise daily living.

[benzoil]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jtmorgan61', 'I') don't think your average person is going to give up on technological society until after 2015. That means urban life is a good place to make money though 2012 or so. Personally my canary in the coal mine is the urban poor in developing countries with decent government stability (so no, Zimbabwe doesn't count.) The life expectancy is probably going to go down a bit due to increased senior and infant mortality no matter what, but if healthy adults start starving, and the feedback from 2-G biofuel plants is uniformly bad, then it's time to start making bugout plans.

[cube]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Toploader', '.')..
And as the saying goes, those that believe it can't be done should not get in the way of those actually trying to do it.

[jbeckton]

I'd say the sudden onslaught of media coverage and corresponding public outrage about energy prices have started the discussion that will do much to soften the eventual blow. And by "blow" I don't mean die-off (at least in developed nations), I mean transitional period. The sooner they start building the nukes (people are changing their opinions after paying the bills) the better off we will be.

[Typo]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('roccman', '6') Billion or more dieing in under 20 years is a stark cold fact.

However - the illusion is powerful.

Thus you have "middlegrounders"...or those who believe in a god that will save them.

Oh well - so it goes.

[timmac]

[6 billion will not be dieing off, that is way to doom for me]

[HEADER_RACK]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Toploader', 'M')y views make even the most hardened doomers seem moderate

[Narz]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('roccman', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('benzoil', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('roccman', '6') Billion or more dieing in under 20 years is a stark cold fact.

[Narz]

Oh yeah, and I'm a moderate. When I first joined I was a bit of a scared doomer but the more I read on this site the more I tend to swing to the moderate side. The doomers are sound-biters with suicide complexes mostly. They have a few good points but rarely provide any data to support their arguments and, in general, give this forum & other similar sites a bad name.

Kind of like the boy who cried wolf. Maybe if the lad had actually studied patterns of wolf attacks and presented a plan to the local town consul about how best to protect the town he would have been listened to. Likewise, if the doomers provided some viable alternate plans for society instead of yelling "It's all over after next Tuesday" (Rocc), trying to profit off scared newbies (Savinar) and beating people over the head with a book (Monte) they might actually have some use (no offense Rocc, I like you personally).

Besides the flaming, one of the reasons I put Monte on ignore is due to his inability to respond to the concept that we might find a similar resource to oil. Had Monte been alive 300 years ago he never would have believed oil could possibly exist. He simply would have called me "in denial" had I told him civilization could go on without wood power. Life is too short to waste talking to a robot.

[TheDude]

You know what Monte would/will say to that, of course. Six letters, begins with H ends with s has "ubri" in the middle...

Monte has a noble message to convey, but I don't see it ever gaining traction. I've always been puzzled by the cornucopians' dreams of hundreds of billions standing shoulder-to-shoulder - that some kind of kneejerk response?

I'd much rather read Jack's posts. Humour so black your eyes water. These 65 page threads on the precise scope of inevitable death are like turgid theological debates on the structure of Hell.